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Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

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Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#101

Post by lhorie »

watwut wrote: post #66
lhorie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's interesting phenomenon on its own that Kasparov is taking a fairly centrist stance here through a careful choice of words (cancelling books getting tends to be done by one side and cancelling professors is often done by the other side) and specifically calling out to promote more freedom regardless of what side you're on, but here in the comments people are looking at it from a bipartisan blame-shifting…

> "I don't care who started it, I only care that you stop fighting" I stopped doing that when I realized this is systematically enabling aggressor. The kid that minds own business is on the defense and effectively forced always do what aggressor wants. Because if it protects or defends itself, adult steps in to tell him he is equally wrong.

Oh to clarify, I know who "started it" (the themes are fairly easily distinguishable, usually falling in one of two buckets: bullying/nagging/disrespect for boundaries or "calvin-ball"-like disagreements; and mostly the latter). If the theme falls in the former category, that kid gets chewed on right from the start. If it's not clear, I ask probing questions first.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#102

Post by dgfitz »

heurisko wrote: post #91
salt-thrower wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best rebuttal to the CRT panic I've ever read. Thank you. I, too, used to think that "oppression matrix" = "all white men are evil," but putting aside the paranoia and simply thinking about it calmly helped me realize that it's not that radical of an idea. Even as a kid I instinctively understood that as a white dude I have it easier in America than most other identities, even though I didn't have the wor…

> Even as a kid I instinctively understood that as a white dude I have it easier in America I think Barack Obama got it right, when he recognised that talk of "white privilege", bred resentment especially amongst the working class, despite some, usually of the left leaning middle-class, willing to adopt the label to describe themselves. > In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most wo…

I sure would like to see a lot of replies to this comment, from the left and the right.

That quote is quite thought-provoking. Playing the thought experiment that the former president is on to something, it seems ironic that the left claim to badly want to help the poor and underprivileged where (it seems) a decent-sized sub-group of said poor and underprivileged are of right persuasion.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#103

Post by thereddaikon »

civilized wrote: post #54
javajosh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You felt the anti-woke side made the stronger case, but you still disagree? Can you add some more detail here?

The challenge with this debate is that the meaning of "cancel culture" is too broad, verging on incoherent. Examples of "cancellation" range from people who experienced harsh consequences for minimal or imaginary "offenses", like Justine Sacco and Donald McNeil, to powerful serial sex offenders like Harvey Weinstein.

I think that most of these debates even exist at all because there is little to no agreement on these things. The current climate for social and political discourse does not allow for much nuance. That means individuals with what are actually different ideologies and belief systems get forced together into the same group. So many current issues are portrayed as having only two sides and you can only be totally on one or the other. "Woke" Is no different.

I'm not some ageless immortal who has personally witnessed all social strife in human history. So while I can confidently say this is a problem now, I can't say for sure if this has always been a problem and inherent to the human condition or if its a recent one and its causes lay in the circumstances of our time.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#105

Post by dragontamer »

stevenicr wrote: post #83
dragontamer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.texastribune.org/2010/03/22/sboe-removes-thomas-... https://archive.thinkprogress.org/texas-board-of-education-c... Thomas Jefferson was successfully removed from all Texas schoolbooks, as one example of many. The Right is no stranger to censorship.

You got me to wonder, thanks for providing the links. I have seen stories recently about removing Jefferson from the public view / cancelling him, based upon far-left / progressive / anti-racist/slavery ideals (I think/assume) that are removing monuments around the country (and murals and building names, etc), not right-wing censorship, so I was quite curious. sadly some of the supporting links are 404 on the thinkpr…

Say that what you will, but the Texas School Board is highly conservative and makes these decisions all the time.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lawmaker-says-850...

> Along with the letter, which was first obtained by The Texas Tribune, Krause appended the book list that includes well-known titles like the Pulitzer Prize-winning William Styron novel, “The Confessions of Nat Turner” and best-sellers that were turned into movies or television series, such as John Irving’s “The Cider House Rules,” Alan Moore’s dystopian “V For Vendetta,” and the graphic novel version of Margaret Atwood’s “The Handmaid’s Tale.”

Censorship, especially censorship applied to schools and education, is simply a tool of those in power to remain in power. In my experience, the conservative states seem to do it the most.

The conservative states also force upon the textbook writers things like "Intelligent Design" or whatnot.

-------

Book banning, removal of icons (Thomas Jefferson), etc. etc. Its all the same techniques. Conservatives simply ignore it when their peers do it, so you don't get to see those issues come up in conservative circles / conservative bubbles.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#106

Post by heresie-dabord »

dandotway wrote: post #51
blub wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I do a search on ddg on this site without entering any search terms (site:archive.ph) I get results about child nudity… Can somebody please post the article or post a trustworthy link?

archive.ph is one of the archive.today domains. I got the archive.ph link using the archive.today Chrome extension. By "child nudity" do you mean illegal child sex abuse materials? If yes, might want to notify the archive.today maintainers that their archive is being illegally misused. I'm afraid to investigate your claim and try clicking any links in case there really is illegal kiddie content.

Your link works as you intended.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#107

Post by Levitz »

javajosh wrote: post #43
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #20

Gotta love Kasparov. I think he's wrong about black lives matter. He's right that it's a required movement, but he's wrong that it's about power. In fact it's the opposite. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2014-10-18%202... black lives matter only exists during the election. And what do they have to show for it? Nothing at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_Justice_in_Polici... https://en.wi…

BLM's problem[1] is that it's a national movement about local problems. It's city cops, not the FBI, that kill people with impunity. The presidential election is generally not the right place to take action, IMHO [2]. In any event, it seems to me that BLM should focus on police money, and ways to put that money in the hands of people who feel that killing unarmed civilians is wrong, the militarization of the police i…

>BLM's problem[1] is that it's a national movement about local problems. It's city cops, not the FBI, that kill people with impunity.

Which happens because black people are overrepresented when it comes to crime, which happens because they are overrepresented in being poor as dirt.

There is racism in the police force in the US, no doubt, but constantly dealing with criminals and seeing a disparity in a race is bound to make people racist. If you were to wave a magic wand and make all racism in the US disappear overnight, new racism would appear in the span of a month because poor people are still poor. This is why I think BLM was headed towards failure from the very start.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#108

Post by bastardoperator »

systemvoltage wrote: post #47
groby_b wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goes to critical thinking ability.

What's wrong with NFT's and it feels like incredibly condescending take to call anyone who supports NFTs lacking critical thinking. If someone is lacking critical thinking, you might want to ask that question to yourself.

Support NFT? With what? Large sums of cash...

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#109

Post by mbg721 »

ritchiea wrote: post #88
fishtoaster wrote: post #13

If you want to hear more of his view, including some solid rebuttals, I highly recommend IntelligenceSquared, a debate series that gets published as a podcast. They cover motions from culture to science to politics across the spectrum and usually get excellent, well-informed debaters on both sides. Their most recent one was "Cancel Culture is Toxic"[0] and Kasparov was arguing in favor of the motion. While I ultimate…

Tangential but it’s always amusing to me to see Kasparov mentioned as a “chess grandmaster” when there are over 1000 grandmasters while Kasparov was the longest reigning world champion & widely considered the best ever. It’s like having Zuckerberg on your panel and making his title “Entrepreneur”.

He's kind of an unusual case. I'd normally think of him as yet another sports star with an opinion, but because of the way the Cold War worked, he has political importance/baggage that somebody like Joe Montana or Fernando Valenzuela doesn't have.

Re: Chess Grandmaster Kasparov on Mob Mentality and Groupthink

#110

Post by tester756 »

ammonammonammon wrote: post #104

Can't take a man seriously that is so rabidly russophobic. He is too emotional and irrational - makes for a great activist though. Just doesn't sell well when an informed and more cerebral audience is confronted.

What makes you think so?

Ain't he more anti-Putin that russophobic?

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