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Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

workmanlayout.org

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Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#101

Post by noaccoun »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #86

DON'T DO IT* I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it. But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not…

It's not about being faster, but to not suffer from RSI. QWERTY forces your hands to stay in abnormal position which can cause wrist pain. Ergonomic layouts (and column-staggered or ortholinear keyboards) are designed with that in mind.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#102

Post by jokoon »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #86

DON'T DO IT* I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it. But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not…

The cost of learning a new layout, only to realize you have trouble using an old layout, is certainly a problem.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#103

Post by lawn »

shirro wrote: post #23

A lot of keyboards optimize the wrong things at least as far as programming is concerned. All the optimizations seem to focus on letters but most of the time an editor or shell can auto complete keywords or identifiers. A ridiculous number of symbols seem to be a very long way from the home keys on weak fingers with modifiers required to access them. If I had to write huge amounts of plain prose and had RSI I think I…

I don't recommend it.

I too tried this with an Ergodox, but the keys you want to have your symbols on are just so far away anyway. The center columns for example are quite far.

Instead I think it's better to use layers (holding down a key to change what other keys do) and place symbols close to your home row. You can even have a numpad right under your fingertips.

This is why ergonomic keyboard users are generally moving towards boards with fewer keys, not more.

Look for QMK programmable keyboards where you can do this and much more.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#104

Post by sergeykish »

lwb wrote: post #24

Looks very interesting, but re-learning how to type is so painful, not to mention devastating to my productivity at work, that I think I can only afford to do it once in a lifetime... I recently made the switch from QWERTY to Dvorak, during a 2 week period while I was in between jobs, and it was one of the most frustrating things I've ever done. Over a month later and I'm back up to a plodding 60 WPM (from a glorious…

I've switched to VIM and Dvorak blind type simultaneously. And out of C++.

I am not such a great typist (ten years later still 40 WPM) but it was one of the best decisions. Comfort improved tremendously and with blind typing it feels like direct interface to screen. Yes, muscle memory is a king. To remember some passwords I had to type them in imagination.

Observing myself - comfort stems from hand alternation. Home row AOEUI is a must have feature.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#105

Post by moonchild »

jeromenerf wrote: post #72
trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

Indeed, I like the thumb keys (2 per thumb would be enough for me though), the tap/hold feature and the central special keys on ergodox for instance. I have not found anything like that for laptops. Not even a split space bar. The tap/hold feature is possible at the os level, with caveats. I usually map the key left to the space bar to Enter.

What is tap/hold?

I believe some people have done portable kinesis builds, which could be an option in tandem with a laptop.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#106

Post by V-2 »

underyx wrote: post #95
trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

> Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special keys (shift, ctrl, backspace, enter) and that's not something colemak, dvorak or their friends seem to be addressing. You're still mostly right, but Colemak does actually move Backspace to the Caps Lock key, which is a change I'd recommend to every single person who types on a computer keyboard.

This. This idea is exactly something I picked up from Colemak (while didn't really enjoy the entire layout). The ability to just press ctrl + capslock (remapped to backspace now) to delete the whole last word with a single hand is by itself a great perk.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#107

Post by Symbiote »

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #31
1MachineElf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me with the FDSA example, but I wonder if that's because I'm also already biased towards Dvorak. Been typing with it since 2016 and loving it so far. Even "ls -l" doesn't bother me anymore - makes me wonder if QWERTY typists have under-developed pinky coordination.

After switching to Dvorak many years ago, I picked up the habits for a lot of shell commands to shift my right over two keys, so that my ring finger could hit the hyphen. `ls -l` is much more comfortable to type with middle-ring-middle than pinky-ring-pinky. I'm sure I've picked up other subtle shifts like that as well, and switching to a split layout keyboard also showed me just how much my hands crossed over for F,…

I just:

  alias 'h=ls'
  alias 'ha=ls -a'
  alias 'hh=ls -l'

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#108

Post by lawn »

toyg wrote: post #97
shirro wrote: post #23

A lot of keyboards optimize the wrong things at least as far as programming is concerned. All the optimizations seem to focus on letters but most of the time an editor or shell can auto complete keywords or identifiers. A ridiculous number of symbols seem to be a very long way from the home keys on weak fingers with modifiers required to access them. If I had to write huge amounts of plain prose and had RSI I think I…

I totally agree, Colemak didn't help me there, my rate of mistakes for special characters is still way too high. There are keyboards that move special characters to their own layer, basically using a meta key for all of them. I'm tempted to try something like that, but stealing meta-combinations is always painful (probably the best candidate would be CapsLock, which I tend to remap to Cmd/Ctrl but never actually got…

With a QMK programmable keyboard you can turn any key into a modifier if held, while operating as a regular key when tapped.

Another way is to get another keyboard with more thumb modifiers.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#109

Post by clarry »

shirro wrote: post #23

A lot of keyboards optimize the wrong things at least as far as programming is concerned. All the optimizations seem to focus on letters but most of the time an editor or shell can auto complete keywords or identifiers. A ridiculous number of symbols seem to be a very long way from the home keys on weak fingers with modifiers required to access them. If I had to write huge amounts of plain prose and had RSI I think I…

Why do modifiers suck? I find that they make me stretch and move my fingers around less while allowing me to use a smaller and more comfortable keyboard. Having more modifiers helps! The problem with standard keyboards is that they're too big (keys become hard to reach) and they don't have enough modifiers.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#110

Post by jomohke »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #86

DON'T DO IT* I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it. But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not…

Note that you can learn a new layout without forgetting Qwerty.

If you switch between layouts while learning, you'll maintain that ability to switch. Similar to how the brain can switch languages.

I found this to be an easier way to learn, as it didn’t interrupt life as much. All of my work stayed in Qwerty until my Workman was good enough. And I still use both.

Edit: The one frustrating switch is Workman's moved copy-and-paste keys. I do press the wrong ones by accident. I would choose Norman instead of Workman today purely for that reason.

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