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Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

workmanlayout.org

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Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#71

Post by dimator »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #66
trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

I've had pretty bad hand/wrist pain some days from overusing the command key on my macbook. The solution for me has been to try and use the right-hand side special keys when possible, but it's hard to break the habit of using my left hand for special keys after 20 years of doing it.

MacBook keyboard + constant track pad use (like 2 months worth) was really wrecking my arm, shoulder, and wrist. I don't recommend that combo for anything but light, short spans.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#72

Post by jeromenerf »

trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

Indeed, I like the thumb keys (2 per thumb would be enough for me though), the tap/hold feature and the central special keys on ergodox for instance.

I have not found anything like that for laptops. Not even a split space bar. The tap/hold feature is possible at the os level, with caveats.

I usually map the key left to the space bar to Enter.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#73

Post by clarry »

Okkef wrote: post #45
coconut08 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Learning a new layout takes months of training. This is completely false. If you go cold turkey and actually work at it you can actually memorize a keyboard layout in a single afternoon, though you will be slow as hell. If you keep at it without switching back you can get up to like 30 wpm in a week. I did it with both colemak and beakl 15. The problem isn't that it takes months, the problem is that it is incredibly…

I'm not saying it's impossible or that you shouldn't do it. I'm saying it's not the first thing you should improve. If you compare switching to colemak the other improvements I listed, it's by far the most effort. I am practicing colemak which mentally exhausts me a few times a week and I'm only up to 18 wpm. Picking up a split keyboard will take maybe an hour before you are back up to speed and you will gain the ben…

> I am practicing colemak which mentally exhausts me a few times a week and I'm only up to 18 wpm.

And then what? You go back to your original layout? No wonder it's taking months.

The best way to learn a new layout is to switch to it and never look back.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#74

Post by smabie »

taneq wrote: post #46
smabie wrote: post #17

> Try typing “The” with the T capitalized on Colemak and hopefully you’ll see what I mean. Try typing “The” with the T capitalized on Colemak and hopefully you’ll see what I mean Why is he shifting with his right hand instead of his left? It seems obvious, but maybe isn't: you should shift/ctrl with the opposite hand that is going to type the letter.

This is going back into the dark ages (we were taught on electric typewriters!) but when I did a typing course I was told only ever to use my left pinky for shift and right thumb for space.

Is there a rationale behind that?

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#76

Post by alpaca128 »

Okkef wrote: post #61
trisiak wrote: post #51

I too suffered from wrist pain and fatigue in the past. The experimentation with different layouts helped a little but it felt like micro-optimization. What actually resolved the problem was switching to an unorthodox ergonomic keyboard where none of the keys required straining or unnecessary effort (kinesis advantage, using a different one these days). Also, most common problems were caused by placement of special k…

This is so true! There are so many quick wins to improve posture before the high-effort micro optimization of changing layouts: - split the keyboard for better shoulder posture (eg ultimate hacking keyboard but don't stop here) - Get a column staggered board with more thumb keys instead of row staggered for better finger movement (ergodox or iris keyboard) - Get rid of the num row and limit movement for fingers to on…

100% this.

I'm using an ergonomic keyboard with the two halves of the keys at a slight angle and column-staggered design, and I can't imagine ever going back to a normal keyboard. Being able to enter every symbol without even moving the wrists is just too comfortable.

It's more expensive than any standard keyboard and I had to solder it myself, but it's basically customised for my fingers. I'm not typing faster, but I have much more fun doing it and fewer issues with my shoulders. I would say it's a much more important upgrade than changing away from QWERTY(which actually isn't that bad, there are a few false myths floating around about it).

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#77

Post by gerhardhaering »

I use the Neo layout since 2013. In my optinion, it is optimized for the German language and for programming. I really love it.

On Linux this worked perfectly for me, but on Macs there are some (Electron?) applications which have their own idea of keybindings. Notably MS Teams. They have their own idea of keybindings and assume some kind of quertz layout. Which using neo makes typing a questionmark, which works using "layer 3 key" (caps lock) and what is "h" on querty impossible. So I end up mostly just typing :question in chat, which produces a questionmark emoticon. Talk about workarounds. Oh yeah, it does not work because Teams opens the "help" window instead.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#78

Post by clarry »

stormdennis wrote: post #52

I used hunt and peck for years before learning to touch type. After four years of touch type I'm still fairly crap. If I try to speed up i commonly get the letter order wrong of two successive letters. I'm a lot better than hunt and peck but I'm kind of disappointed. Would it be a major job moving to Dvorak and can you expect big improvements? Also is it better for the keys programmers use that others don't use so mu…

> Would it be a major job moving to Dvorak and can you expect big improvements?

Don't expect improvements in speed. For me it's all about comfort.

What's a major job for you? You can memorize the layout in a day, type painfully slow for a couple days, start to feel rather comfortable in a week or two tops (still likely slower, depending on how fast you were, but now you're accustomed to the pace you type at on your new layout). Getting to the 80-100 WPM range takes weeks.

This, of course, assumes that you put in the effort (do drills and memorize the layout first of all; keep doing drills daily, and don't switch back to your old layout when it feels convenient).

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#79

Post by resu_nimda »

Keyboard layouts are incredibly fascinating. For the amount of typing that is done today it feels like we are collectively still in the Dark Ages of textual input.

A while ago on HN there was link to a talk from a stenographer (the people who do court reporting and other live transcription). They achieve the highest WPM by using a smaller keyboard and pressing "chords" of multiple keys at the same time, which map to sounds or words. Over time each individual customizes their "dictionary" to meet their usage/needs.

From there it's easy to imagine a future where children are given devices that fit their hands like gloves or wii-motes that convert motions to text, with a system that adapts and grows with them over time.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#80

Post by clarry »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #14

For people looking to try a new layout, I recommend a Carpalx optimized layout. They have very detailed analysis on the layout: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization I've been using it on my Kinesis for a while, and it's totally worth it: https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/ki...

> and it's totally worth it

How would you characterise it? Speed, comfort, typo rate, something else?

What layout(s) did you touch type on before carpalx?

I might be interested in switching (after 15 years of increasingly customized dvorak).

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