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For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

theguardian.com

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Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#101

Post by weggooi »

faizshah wrote: post #73
weggooi wrote: post #41

Estimates are that, if governments do nothing to combat Covid 19, then the life expectancy of the whole population will be reduced by a mere 20 days.[1] Sacrificing 4 months of exercise, meaningful conversation, sex and other basic human needs is really not worth it. [1] For example 13.26 million QALYs divided by the US population https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-covid-cost-ben...

The euphemism of “Life expectancy of the whole population” is disguising that you’re saying 200k-1.7 million deaths is worth you not having to stay home for 4 months. This isn’t even factoring in the millions who will suffer severe cases needing hospitalization and suffering permanent lung damage but won’t die. Secondly, the article you linked has several arguments against your own conclusion. For example, that many…

There are alternatives to locking the whole population down: For example the Imperial College study predicts less deaths if only the 70+ population is locked down.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/s...

Also look at page 10: If you lockdown for only 5 months, the virus just comes back and still kills 1 in 500 people.

If you want to minimize the deaths, the study suggests that you need 400+ days of lockdowns over a 2 year period.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#102

Post by nabnob »

oneida wrote: post #89
nabnob wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed people only ever bring this up to derail conversations around women's shelters. Do you spread information on this topic and try to raise awareness in a proactive way, or do you only bring this up in reaction to comments about women's shelters?

That’s probably because your perception is that it is a derailment.

It's a derailment because the people bringing this up aren't actually organizing towards helping homeless men. These two issues, women's shelters and men's shelters, aren't actually in contradiction with each other but the commenter I was responding to is treating it that way.

The reason women's shelters exist is because activists in the 60's and 70's decided to build them and gain support, and eventually fought for funding. What is stopping any of you from actually building a movement to help homeless men, instead of complaining about the activists who try to help women in need of housing?

Why complain about the activists who focus on women's shelters because they're not ALSO tackling the issue of men's shelters, when you yourself could prioritize the issue of men's shelters?

Edit: The people who are dedicating their lives to helping homeless men do not see women's shelters as competition, they see women's shelters as valuable resources for knowledge with lots of carryover (such as approaches for addressing mental illness, drug addiction, and poverty). If you yourself have zero interest in putting in real effort towards a solution outside of opportunistic internet comments, why should anyone listen to you?

Take the lead, do some research, and build something.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#103

Post by cies »

zabana wrote: post #68
OrangeMango wrote: post #15

Where I am, the second paragraph of the executive order establishing the "lockdown" explicitly states that victims of domestic violence are exempt and are urged to leave for a safer location. It makes clear further in the order that services provided are considered essential and should remain open and that transportation is also essential and should remain available. The news media simply does a terrible job of commu…

> The news media simply does a terrible job of communicating what exactly these "lockdowns" mean. The news media have no incentive to rationally analyse facts and put them in perspective. They need panic and confusion so we continue to click on their substance-less articles and videos. In times of confusion like this, go directly to the official sources (WHO, ministry of health, NHS etc) and skip the "journalists" al…

I believe the WHO also presenting in ways to promote panic.

For instance the quote "Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected." [1]

These two number are are total false comparison. Now they may do this for good purposes: a little fear helps people take it serious and thus follow suit. But this I believe it is VERY intellectually dishonest and has me even question their narrative at this point. (No COVID19 denier here, just want to know what the chances of survival and inconveniences are for me + loved ones + world population at large)

3.4% = corona deaths / total cases tested positive

>1% = flu deaths / estimated total infected

Now these terms contain a lot of grey area but this is true, I did the peer review and made calcs to support what I say here: WHO presents apple-orange data. That's either by accident (I hope not, cuz statistics should be their game), or more likely to make it look more severe (again this could be with good intentions).

Another thing to consider is that the "total cases tested positive" likely have a serious selection bias. Sick folk is tested at the moment. Where a population research should test a random sample.

I'm just trying to make sense of this whole thing like all of us, but the WHO has put me off as a reputable source of info. Less shitty than the MSM journalists, sure, but not good either.

1: https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-...

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#104

Post by hartator »

leetcrew wrote: post #98
lmkg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you think matters more to a person in an abusive situation? A. Paragraph two of some legal document somewhere B. "If you leave the house, I'll call the cops and tell them you're breaking quarantine, and then you'll go to jail and I'll be the only person who can get you out." I don't disagree with your last paragraph: There are other related issues and maybe some of them are worse. But how this actually plays…

is this a realistic hypothetical? most people in abusive situations either don't have another place to go in the first place, or the abuser has leverage (eg, a child) to keep them in that home. wouldn't the threat of calling the cops be only a marginal source of leverage?

Anything can be source of leverage. Doesn’t need to make sense.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#106

Post by KuhlMensch »

tal8d wrote: post #42

Another one for the pile of "Men dying of _ at a higher rate, women most affected!"

The article clearly is titled "abusive partner", it is not gendered.

Which means you are projecting a gender, and subsequently doing the mental arithmetic get be outraged by that projection.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#107

Post by [deleted] »

macintux wrote: post #80
xwdv wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an abuser says B and the abused knows about A why wouldn’t they just throw that in their face and then leave? If you know your rights you’ll have the confidence to act.

Victims of abuse have typically been trapped financially, emotionally, and physically long before the lockdown occurred. Abusers have many ways of keeping their victims from “asserting their rights”.

[deleted]

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#108

Post by [deleted] »

nabnob wrote: post #79
maerF0x0 wrote: post #37

In addition, sadly there are nearly 0 shelters for men. https://nypost.com/2017/10/29/these-shelters-help-male-victi...

I've noticed people only ever bring this up to derail conversations around women's shelters. Do you spread information on this topic and try to raise awareness in a proactive way, or do you only bring this up in reaction to comments about women's shelters?

[deleted]

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#109

Post by tal8d »

KuhlMensch wrote: post #106
tal8d wrote: post #42

Another one for the pile of "Men dying of _ at a higher rate, women most affected!"

The article clearly is titled "abusive partner", it is not gendered. Which means you are projecting a gender, and subsequently doing the mental arithmetic get be outraged by that projection.

So the text of the article doesn't factor into your diagnosis of my projection?

"Alison’s balcony offers her a small degree of distance from her partner..."

"For the estimated 1.6 million women who experienced domestic abuse..."

"...self isolation for women in coercive or violent relationships..."

"But he’s the worst..."

"...the charity WomanKind in Bristol has had a number of new callers."

"...women can leave violent households to go to a refuge during the lockdown."

"Help is still out there for women enduring domestic abuse."

"Sian Norris is a writer and feminist activist"

Such mental arithmetic, much meninist numbers.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#110

Post by pdpi »

leetcrew wrote: post #98
lmkg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you think matters more to a person in an abusive situation? A. Paragraph two of some legal document somewhere B. "If you leave the house, I'll call the cops and tell them you're breaking quarantine, and then you'll go to jail and I'll be the only person who can get you out." I don't disagree with your last paragraph: There are other related issues and maybe some of them are worse. But how this actually plays…

is this a realistic hypothetical? most people in abusive situations either don't have another place to go in the first place, or the abuser has leverage (eg, a child) to keep them in that home. wouldn't the threat of calling the cops be only a marginal source of leverage?

The only leverage you need is the “emotional upper ground”, if you will. Just the fact that you’re on the receiving end of a threat matters more than how realistic the threat is, especially in a pre-existing abusiva relationship.
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