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Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#101

Post by dirtyid »

hnarn wrote: post #83
dirtyid wrote: post #56

Engine failure, not missile, caused crash of Ukrainian airliner in Iran: Ukrainian embassy [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-engine/engine-... The fallout / propaganda from this is certainly going to be interesting. Either Iranian air defense / Russian arms is unreliable or another nail in the coffin for Boeing. I wonder what's Ukraine's angle in all this in context of Trump drama. Is this an deescala…

Wow, that's a quick investigation by the Ukrainian embassy /s

Well the question is, what is the motive behind releasing this statement? It doesn't really benefit Ukraine to shit on Boeing so rashly and publicly because they're still beholden to US support. The calculation behind the messaging is very curious. Did Iran request Ukraine to release this statement? Why would Ukraine oblige them. Did the US ask Ukraine because maybe Iranians will attribute the crash to US hostility like 655 and they're trading Boeing reputation for deescalation.

Presumably US/Russia/ everyone in the region is watching Iranians skies very carefully post retaliation, if there's signs of the plane was shot down, it would be easy to confirm. If there's no signs, then it can be quickly dismissed as technical error to deescalate an already confusing situation.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#102

Post by JumpCrisscross »

echelon wrote: post #12

(Edit: We don't know what caused this incident. Speculation follows. It's best to not form conclusions until the experts examine the evidence.) It looks like it was shot down with an air defense missile. You can see the plane on fire as it falls to the earth. Video taken during the crash, the plane is clearly engulfed in flames: https://mobile.twitter.com/isna_farsi/status/121475622529397... Video of the aftermath /…

> It looks like it was shot down with an air defense missile. You can see the plane on fire as it falls to the earth.

Come on. Don't do this.

Planes are complex machines. They're pressurized and propelled by a continuous explosion. There are lots of ways for things to go wrong.

A good rule of thumb in aviation is to ignore the first 24 hours of news. There are no facts. Everyone is an armchair crash investigator. And mindshare is competed for with salaciousness.

It could be an attack. It could be an air-defense error. Or it could be a mechanical error. One of countless possible mechanical errors. Either way, it's a tragedy to which no service is done by baseless speculation.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#103

Post by otalp »

jcaprani wrote: post #88
Gigablah wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the reputable journalists at BuzzFeed News , which has produced two Pulitzer Prize finalists so far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BuzzFeed_News

I think you mean activists rather than journalists.

Any writer of news someone doesn't like can be an "activist" rather than a journalist, it's a pointless distinction

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#104

Post by bitcoinbutter »

Majestic121 wrote: post #86
techie128 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think it should take them at least a few days to determine a preliminary cause of the crash?

It would take everyone a few days to determine the cause, especially the people spreading unverified informations such as 'it was shot down by a missile'

It wouldn't take very long for the relevant parties to know whether they accidentally shot a missile at a 737. For a mechanical issue, there would be much more uncertainty (although it's possible the pilot reported the issue to ATC).

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#105

Post by allovernow »

mikejb wrote: post #69
echelon wrote: post #12

(Edit: We don't know what caused this incident. Speculation follows. It's best to not form conclusions until the experts examine the evidence.) It looks like it was shot down with an air defense missile. You can see the plane on fire as it falls to the earth. Video taken during the crash, the plane is clearly engulfed in flames: https://mobile.twitter.com/isna_farsi/status/121475622529397... Video of the aftermath /…

The Ukrainian embassy reported preliminary information indicates engine failure, and excludes a rocket or terrorist attack as cause. [1] Particularly at this time, I wouldn't trust random sources on the web to provide accurate information about events. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-cras...

How much can you trust government agencies in times like these? With so many competing intelligence agencies, quite possibly sitting on the brink of WWIII, I don't think it's outlandish for an official source to lie, intentionally or not.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#106

Post by viraptor »

jcaprani wrote: post #58
iso947 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unverified video There’s a lot of disinformation going on online. We saw this in the recent UK election, there are many players wanting to spread lies. I just hope our reputable journalists are up to the job. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/janelytvynenko/false-an...

You mean the reputable journalists at BuzzFeed?

BuzzFeed is quite different from BuzzFeedNews which produces higher quality content. Very unfortunate naming and we go through that exchange on hn every time they get linked.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#107

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #12

(Edit: We don't know what caused this incident. Speculation follows. It's best to not form conclusions until the experts examine the evidence.) It looks like it was shot down with an air defense missile. You can see the plane on fire as it falls to the earth. Video taken during the crash, the plane is clearly engulfed in flames: https://mobile.twitter.com/isna_farsi/status/121475622529397... Video of the aftermath /…

[deleted]

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#108

Post by a012 »

mikejb wrote: post #69
echelon wrote: post #12

(Edit: We don't know what caused this incident. Speculation follows. It's best to not form conclusions until the experts examine the evidence.) It looks like it was shot down with an air defense missile. You can see the plane on fire as it falls to the earth. Video taken during the crash, the plane is clearly engulfed in flames: https://mobile.twitter.com/isna_farsi/status/121475622529397... Video of the aftermath /…

The Ukrainian embassy reported preliminary information indicates engine failure, and excludes a rocket or terrorist attack as cause. [1] Particularly at this time, I wouldn't trust random sources on the web to provide accurate information about events. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-cras...

I see it's too immature to conduct an engine failure in this situation without investigation report.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#109

Post by AtlasLion »

allovernow wrote: post #105
mikejb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukrainian embassy reported preliminary information indicates engine failure, and excludes a rocket or terrorist attack as cause. [1] Particularly at this time, I wouldn't trust random sources on the web to provide accurate information about events. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-cras...

How much can you trust government agencies in times like these? With so many competing intelligence agencies, quite possibly sitting on the brink of WWIII, I don't think it's outlandish for an official source to lie, intentionally or not.

Then why even talk about anything at that point if you were not there yourself.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#110

Post by melcor »

spease wrote: post #23
nickserv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be a very easy investigation: "pilot error". This way there's no need to dig any deeper.

Is there actually any kind of believable “pilot error” that can cause a passenger 737-800 to catch fire in the air and crash?

The pilot failed to successfully evade an incoming missile?
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