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Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

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Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#101

Post by candiodari »

Beldin wrote: post #92
candiodari wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind if I inquire, what civil rights does a European have that an American doesn't ?

Privacy. In the EU, there's the GDPR with such rights as the right to be forgotten, the right to access and correct any data a company has in you, etc. In the US, the FCC recently made it possible for ISPs to sell data on browsing behaviour from their clients to anyone that pays. Neither is perfect, but they are worlds apart in this respect.

Ok let's split up this argument:

1) Privacy from government snooping

a) targeted/with court order (sort of, as in many cases in the EU this does not actually require a court order. Quite a few states just give police the authority to do this by themselves with little to no oversight). Perhaps this should be called "lawful intercept" or perhaps non-mass surveillance.

US: privacy held up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

EU: no privacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#Legislation...

b) without

US: no privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Unite...

EU: no privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#United_Kingd... etc ...

2) privacy in the sense of forcing companies to drop personal data

US: complex, and varies from state to state, in most cases you should be able to get it deleted https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/6-502-0467?transi...

EU: also complex, but generalized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...

Relating to debts:

US: standardized, and regulated

EU: complete and total chaos

So, I would say that the situation is not quite so clear cut. In terms of your rights to prevent state spying on you, clearly the US provides superior tools to it's citizens. In fact the EU is worryingly bad. In the private sector it would be fair to say the EU is superior, except when it comes to information about debts, where again the US is superior.

Doesn't seem to me to be such a clear-cut situation. But perhaps I'm wrong. Why do you think one is superior to the other ? If you're falsely accused of something, I assure you the US is far superior. If you want your mcDo to stop sending you email, you're going to find the EU is superior. Of course, spam was mostly illegal before the GPDR, and I suspect that nothing will change in practice.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#102

Post by shady-lady »

jayachdee wrote: post #5

I'm Irish, almost all of my friends work for American companies in Dublin. This article has decided to count the ~100,000 Irish devs in American companies as American and then wonder why European companies aren't as big. Which is doubly funny when you realise that most of the American companies mentioned are "Irish" for most of the world.

> This article has decided to count the ~100,000 Irish devs in American companies as American

Where are you seeing that?

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#103

Post by skummetmaelk »

ttoinou wrote: post #100
skummetmaelk wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good intentions do result in success. Good policies result in success. If you give up and say "government" will never work, then no. Of course it will never work. Pointing to failed scenarios and saying x failed therefore y will fail is "stupid". You must examine why x failed and make sure you don't include this element when trying to do y. It is an iterative process. One thing is for sure. If government employees do…

Good intentions do result in success Then all it needs is people believing it will work so it can work, like magic ! Or Universal Basic Income Therefore trust in government How citizen trust in government and government employees having good intentions are related ?

I missed a "not" on the first quote there.

I believe they are related because it is harder for people to develop trust in government if the good intentions of government workers and the governmental system in general is not apparent.

Conversely it is difficult to have a large pool of well intentioned potential governmental employees if a large portion of citizens have been brought up to think that the government is evil. These citizens are much more likely to try to exploit government positions than to treat them with the responsibility for the people that they require.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#104

Post by dang »

eahman00 wrote: post #40
sparkling wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Speaking as someone from Europe... I don't have any first hand experience, but when browsing HN or Reddit, developer salaries above $150k seem to be the norm [1], not the "one in a million people" exception. As you may know, such salaries are unheard in Europe. It seems to me that becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years…

>becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years [2], not decades (European here) I don't care about being financially dependent on the state, because the state is not my enemy. The state gave me healthcare, the state gave me a free education, the state takes care of stuff. I don't care about "freedom".

We've banned this account for trolling. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#105

Post by dogma1138 »

no1youknowz wrote: post #70

I'll probably get Uber down voted for this, but this is my experience from the last 2 years in preparing to get a startup of the ground. Here's some relevant data points: 1) I have contacted over 400 service providers in multiple sectors to provide services to the startup. * Yes that's not a typo. 400 companies have been emailed, then called. I don't mind picking up the phone and talking to someone. 2) Of the 12 serv…

I won’t say much but I’ve stopped taking any people management positions because just how hard it is to discipline not to mention fire people in the EU without being liable to be dragged in front of a tribunal.

I’ve met so many people that simply don’t care because they have zero fear of losing their job as anything other than redundancy which will include often a nice settlement is simply unlikely for anything short of criminal negligence.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#106

Post by fit2rule »

andyroid wrote: post #90
fit2rule wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany, and Austria. Getting a grant in Austria essentially guarantees that the hunger you need to survive in the tech world today will be quenched by that sweet, sweet, government handout.

You are seriously arguing that the threat of starving is how you want to motivate people to work for you? Sorry but I doubt European bureaucracy is what’s holding your companies back.

The threat of starving isn't holding anyone back, and I didn't say anything about the people working for me - however the decadence of having a safety net means fewer real risks are taken, and certainly less responsibility for the basics. It means the people who work for me don't have to work too hard to keep their jobs - after all, the government will take care of them if I have to fire them for under performance.

Which happens, quite a lot more in Europe than it ever did in the USA. Americans seem to like to keep their jobs - Europeans couldn't care less.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#107

Post by flukus »

anothergoogler wrote: post #99
jagermo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mp3 algorithm, Spotify, Opera Browser, Vivaldi Browser, BMW, Audi, Opel, Mercedes...

Vivaldi is based on Chromium, not sure it counts as much as the others you listed. Reminded me of an article from a couple days ago: https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2160072/redcore-ceo-admits...

If you go back through the webkit->KHTML lineage then chromium was mostly created by Europeans.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#108

Post by [deleted] »

rapsey wrote: post #63
carlesfe wrote: post #12

Oh, Europe can do tech indeed. The article is spot on: imagine two startups, one in Barcelona and another in Boston, developing a very similar product. The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market? Yes, there are other factors; work/life balance, heterogeneous markets/languages, collaboration vs competition mindset, etc. But here in Europe we also have workaholics that…

> The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market? Also which one has a domestic market with a single language of 325 million people.

[deleted]

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#109

Post by BerislavLopac »

Annatar wrote: post #53
buboard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because most Europeans are happy with a good work/life balance That is the common trope but the truth is there is no other option. There are whole countries which are destined to end up as tourist destinations.

You mean like Croatia? They've had 1000 years of servitude and have only begun their 1000 years long dream of being their own masters. They will have to learn how to do that and it will take them a long time, but they are already on the top in the weapons, pharmaceuticals and auto industries ("HS Produkt", "Belupo", "Pliva" and "Rimac") and might someday become a ship building power once again. They won't be just a t…

Gluposti.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#110

Post by BerislavLopac »

rapsey wrote: post #63
carlesfe wrote: post #12

Oh, Europe can do tech indeed. The article is spot on: imagine two startups, one in Barcelona and another in Boston, developing a very similar product. The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market? Yes, there are other factors; work/life balance, heterogeneous markets/languages, collaboration vs competition mindset, etc. But here in Europe we also have workaholics that…

> The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market? Also which one has a domestic market with a single language of 325 million people.

Well, at least in the sheer number of native speakers of the language, the first one has a slight advantage. You're right with regards to the domestic market, although my understanding is that various US states often have incompatible legislations.
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