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Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 121 posts

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#61
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? What kind of gigs yield that kind of money and how is taxation for freelancers in Switzerland?

Gigs where people have very specialized knowledge, like SAP consulting, or where they have 20-30 years of system engineering and IT architecting experience. Taxation is low compared to the rest of the world, but since Switzerland is closed off to immigration and currently working on clamping down on it even more with all their might, it's pointless to discuss freelancing there. Which means that freelancers who work t…

At least EU citizens should have no problem to immigrate at the moment.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Speaking as someone from Europe... I don't have any first hand experience, but when browsing HN or Reddit, developer salaries above $150k seem to be the norm [1], not the "one in a million people" exception. As you may know, such salaries are unheard in Europe. It seems to me that becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years…

I very much doubt 150k is what most Americans earn. But yeah be rich in America if you can, be poor in Europe if you can't. Although there is more in life than money, when you leave your Silicon Valley gated community you have to look at the rest of the country.

Nobody in Europe is truly poor like they are in America. Most places in the States, one is lucky if one earns $40 to $55 k per year, and that's barely enough to make ends meet (been there, done that, got the T-shirt), especially for young people starting out like I was decades prior. Had to watch every dollar on that kind of a salary with home and car mortgages (like most Americans). If I had $200 - $300 left at the end of the month after paying everything, I considered myself lucky and hoped no unforeseen expense incident would take place. And that's true for most people in IT in the States. My buddy who rubbed elbows with me sitting at lectures at the university and has the same exact degree as me is earning around $55 k after more than 25 years in the industry, and his salary is above average compared to what the rest of the people earn.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#63

Oh, Europe can do tech indeed. The article is spot on: imagine two startups, one in Barcelona and another in Boston, developing a very similar product. The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market? Yes, there are other factors; work/life balance, heterogeneous markets/languages, collaboration vs competition mindset, etc. But here in Europe we also have workaholics that…

> The first one raises €2M, the second one $50M. Which one is going to beat the other to market?

Also which one has a domestic market with a single language of 325 million people.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#64
post #41

We do tech. There are more startups on my city (which is small) than what the article is mentioning as average. The article assumes that "doing tech" needs to be something like a facebook or google and sell customer data like there is no tomorrow. It's a bit different around here, we like it that way.

The title is clickbaity, as is the norm these days. The reason it's so blunt and "polarizing" is that Bloomberg is a US publication. You think they'd ever dare publish an article asking "Why can't the US do civil rights?", an arguably more important topic than tech? Europe can do tech but they don't really make it an important target. Also many of the good people in tech choose to go Silicon Valley (which is now ~60%…

The US is a single body with a unified strategy to developing the tech sector?

What are you thinking of here exactly?

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#65
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? What kind of gigs yield that kind of money and how is taxation for freelancers in Switzerland?

Gigs where people have very specialized knowledge, like SAP consulting, or where they have 20-30 years of system engineering and IT architecting experience. Taxation is low compared to the rest of the world, but since Switzerland is closed off to immigration and currently working on clamping down on it even more with all their might, it's pointless to discuss freelancing there. Which means that freelancers who work t…

Switzerland isn't closed off to immigration and working on clamping down with all their might, I wonder where you got that impression.

It's the opposite. It allows unlimited immigration from the EU. The people voted against that it's true, but the government ignored the referendum and implemented a local worker preference instead. But with unemployment very low anyway, it is easy to argue you could not find a Swiss person to do the work, so this is effectively the same as doing nothing.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#66
post #2

Maybe because most Europeans are happy with a good work/life balance, and don't constantly obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Obviously such obsessives exist, but I bet they are a lot less common than in countries with a, let's say, get big or go home attitude. Also, state funded safety nets means it's less urgent to have $lots saved up to survive the next crisis.

>state funded safety nets Ding ding ding: this is the answer: those safety nets are also a cage. Disclaimer: have started many businesses around the world, including the US and Europe. Europeans don't proceed to the glory and glamor of US startups because they have to deal with government bureaucracy, and alas such bureaucracy is contagious. The moment you wade into the grant-getting territory, you become a grant-get…

I honestly don't know why you got down-voted for this: I can confirm from first hand experience that everything you wrote is a fact. This place often makes no sense whatsoever in what is considered good or bad.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#67
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare a US salary with a EU salary 1:1. In the EU you get retirement money, you get health insurance, and all kind of other benefits. You need to calculate all these positive and negative and then compare. And that's a lot of work!

Yes, obviously it is not a 1:1 comparison, but even with additional costs for getting private healthcare etc. you are better of by far in the US. Also, i'd prefer to pay into a 401k plan over some EU government pension plan any time.

Perhaps, for me it just means that the comparisons are inaccurate.

I'd like to see an in-depth comparison which includes things such as taxation. I often see rent being mentioned in these comparisons. Cost of living is just one minor aspect. QoL is yet another, and more subjective. If you knew what my healthcare costs are and what I get out of it (or well, in the past), I am pretty confident that a lot of Americans would prefer that, except for a rich happy few. It isn't as if private healthcare doesn't have any incentive, or is always high quality. Example [1]

And even cost of living is difficult to compare. If you go to a US shop, pretty much always the price doesn't include sales tax. If you go to a EU shop, if the product is targeted for consumers the default price has to include the sales tax. I find the former -like the imperial system- not practical at best, and deceiving at worst. The latter is just a matter of seeing it from the customer's PoV though yeah it might lead to lower sales on the long run it leads to more happy customers.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17753294

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#68
Who cares? Why does this article assume that giant corporations like fb and Google are even desired? For everyone but their founders, they are a cancer to society. Europe's cultural barriers are a net positive, preventing these cancers from growing and spreading. It makes it a better place to live for everyone. It's such an American centric point of view to want big companies, almost always monopolies, to thrive at the expense of everyone else. Europe does tech just fine. Maybe the question is why can't America control its cancerous companies? Now that is an interesting topic.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#69

We do tech. There are more startups on my city (which is small) than what the article is mentioning as average. The article assumes that "doing tech" needs to be something like a facebook or google and sell customer data like there is no tomorrow. It's a bit different around here, we like it that way.

> "doing tech" needs to be something like a facebook or google

Yes, this is what is implied. Why would you think otherwise? Funny that building big corporations is frowned upon or even outright vilified by so many.

May be this is what is wrong with Europe; no more ambition to do big things.

Big tech companies can do so much more than tiny businesses. Granted, there are some things that small companies can do better especially when it requires huge risk taking, but overall, why would any small company not want to get bigger(as big as it can get)? Isn't that the point of being in business?!

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#70
I'll probably get Uber down voted for this, but this is my experience from the last 2 years in preparing to get a startup of the ground.

Here's some relevant data points:

1) I have contacted over 400 service providers in multiple sectors to provide services to the startup.

* Yes that's not a typo. 400 companies have been emailed, then called. I don't mind picking up the phone and talking to someone.

2) Of the 12 service providers that were selected, only 1 company is from the UK. All others are from the US.

3) All of the EU companies that were contacted, I later found out were either:-

- Lacking in terms of functionality compared to the US competitors.

- Had no roadmaps or no visibility of when they would reach parity with US competitors.

- Were much more expensive than US competitors.

- Many EU companies had no US focus and more focused in EU, ME and Africa.

4) Of the US companies that I selected. I had interacted initially with the EU offices. Being in the UK, their systems always forwarded the contact form to the EU/UK office.

The sales individuals located in the EU office were always SUB PAR!

- They didn't know their product as well as they could have.

- Simply made up bullshit in order to backup their claim that the functionality that I required was not possible. Even though I knew it was.

- As soon as they realised that I was a startup, they were not interested in the sales lead.

- In some circumstances, I knew the industry, regulatory issues and their competitors better than they did.

- One further point. I remember contacting Skrill's London office and then speaking to an Italian woman and her shouting at me with respect to their functionality. She didn't know the product and was telling me that a certain feature was not available. The more I described to her that it was possible. The louder she got. Despite it being on their website.

- I have many emails from UK/EU individuals informing me that they can't do [functionality X] because of regulations/etc. However, other companies were able to do it perfectly fine. Again, this boils down to the employees of the company not knowing their product/industry.

- I won't mention who said this. It's a well known US service provider to SaaS companies. When I was speaking to a UK sales manager. I outlined what the startup was doing. The sales person informed me that there would be NO WAY that I would be able to get my first 100 users. To quote him: "You won't get 100 users". Needless to say, the conversation didn't last long.

5) What's worse than all this? Every single German company that I have spoken to were not startup friendly in the least. In fact, every single German company would tell me that I had no chance of success and that I should go and do something else.

Here's a typical exchange:

Me: Hi, I am interested in your product offering and would like to know if [X functionality] is available and what you pricing is.

Them: What is your current turnover.

Me: I'm a startup.

Them: Please come back to us when you are doing 7 figures a year. Good bye!

6) The difference with US companies.

- Knew the product inside and out. Knew their competitors and could inform me how they were better than [competitor X].

- In many circumstances. Once I had spoken to the initial sales employee or they had read my email and PDF attachment of the startup. I was immediately forwarded to the Sales VP and they wanted my business. Instead of pitching my startup to the service provider. They were pitching their company to me.

- In many circumstances, there was a program to help startups get off the ground. There would always be a requirement to be part of an accelerator or be VC backed. In my case, this was always waived.

- A few times, the sales employee commented that this was obviously a "billion dollar" startup and that they wanted to be part of it. That is, be a partner service provider. The more revenue that I generated, the more they would generate as well!

- In all cases, they were startup friendly. Being a startup with 0 in revenue and 0 sales and months away from launch. No problem in discussing their product with me.

- In some cases, where a service provider could not help. Due to missing functionality or regulatory issue. Would even forward me to a contact in a competitor that could help!

- In a couple of times. Would even offer their own development team to build some tech that I mentioned I was having issues with. For FREE! Gratis! Of course, I always declined, but I thought was very nice of them.

There's probably more positive items, but I can't think of more right now.

The bottom line is. I now only deal with US companies and when I send an email out. I always append the preference to deal with US sales teams.

The outlook and behavior of US companies is vastly different than EU companies:

- More positive outlook.

- More willing to work with startups.

- Acknowledge that, the better the client does, the more revenue they will earn. (yes this point is lost with EU companies)

Disclaimer: I'm a solo technical founder. I'm bootstrapping the company with just $1,000 (on purpose). I am not getting any FFF funding nor any VC funding as well.

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