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Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

bloomberg.com

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Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#41

Post by close04 »

nunobrito wrote: post #23

We do tech. There are more startups on my city (which is small) than what the article is mentioning as average. The article assumes that "doing tech" needs to be something like a facebook or google and sell customer data like there is no tomorrow. It's a bit different around here, we like it that way.

The title is clickbaity, as is the norm these days. The reason it's so blunt and "polarizing" is that Bloomberg is a US publication. You think they'd ever dare publish an article asking "Why can't the US do civil rights?", an arguably more important topic than tech?

Europe can do tech but they don't really make it an important target. Also many of the good people in tech choose to go Silicon Valley (which is now ~60% foreigners) so this depletes the pool of EU talent. The bigger SV gets, the harder it is for person in tech to resist the temptation to go, and for local EU startups to find the proper resources.

And the EU doesn't yet act like a single body with a unified strategy when it comes to developing the tech sector, unlike the US or China. It's hard to mount an offence against an already established leader when everybody is pulling in another direction.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#42

Post by sparkling »

eahman00 wrote: post #40
sparkling wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Speaking as someone from Europe... I don't have any first hand experience, but when browsing HN or Reddit, developer salaries above $150k seem to be the norm [1], not the "one in a million people" exception. As you may know, such salaries are unheard in Europe. It seems to me that becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years…

>becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years [2], not decades (European here) I don't care about being financially dependent on the state, because the state is not my enemy. The state gave me healthcare, the state gave me a free education, the state takes care of stuff. I don't care about "freedom".

You may want to talk to some people in Greece...

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#44

Post by phobosdeimos »

sparkling wrote: post #17
l0b0 wrote: post #2

Maybe because most Europeans are happy with a good work/life balance, and don't constantly obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Obviously such obsessives exist, but I bet they are a lot less common than in countries with a, let's say, get big or go home attitude. Also, state funded safety nets means it's less urgent to have $lots saved up to survive the next crisis.

> obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Speaking as someone from Europe... I don't have any first hand experience, but when browsing HN or Reddit, developer salaries above $150k seem to be the norm [1], not the "one in a million people" exception. As you may know, such salaries are unheard in Europe. It seems to me that becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years…

I very much doubt 150k is what most Americans earn. But yeah be rich in America if you can, be poor in Europe if you can't. Although there is more in life than money, when you leave your Silicon Valley gated community you have to look at the rest of the country.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#45

Post by jopsen »

sparkling wrote: post #17
l0b0 wrote: post #2

Maybe because most Europeans are happy with a good work/life balance, and don't constantly obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Obviously such obsessives exist, but I bet they are a lot less common than in countries with a, let's say, get big or go home attitude. Also, state funded safety nets means it's less urgent to have $lots saved up to survive the next crisis.

> obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Speaking as someone from Europe... I don't have any first hand experience, but when browsing HN or Reddit, developer salaries above $150k seem to be the norm [1], not the "one in a million people" exception. As you may know, such salaries are unheard in Europe. It seems to me that becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years…

Contractors and tech workers can certainly cash in $150k / yr in Europe. Jobs like that don't hang on trees, but they do exist. Whether that means working remotely, contracting or getting a regular job. Sure median wages aren't 150k many places in Europe, but that's not the case in the US either, only in the bay area.

> Putting 3-4 months of US paychecks away in a savings account will put you ahead of any safety net in Europe.

My parents had 3 kids through 5 years of University (tuition + living expenses), this was all paid by the state. Back of envelope math values it at $450k, but in the US tuition fees are much higher.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#46

Post by christudor »

Fnoord wrote: post #26
sparkling wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obsess about pipe dreams that come through for one in a million people? Speaking as someone from Europe... I don't have any first hand experience, but when browsing HN or Reddit, developer salaries above $150k seem to be the norm [1], not the "one in a million people" exception. As you may know, such salaries are unheard in Europe. It seems to me that becoming financially independent in the US is a matter of years…

You can't compare a US salary with a EU salary 1:1. In the EU you get retirement money, you get health insurance, and all kind of other benefits. You need to calculate all these positive and negative and then compare. And that's a lot of work!

Exactly. Everyone in the UK gets free healthcare, for example, which is worth a substantial amount of money.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#47

Post by sparkling »

koevet wrote: post #33
ukoki wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> salaries are unheard in Europe This income exists in the UK for contractors. $150k/year is a day-rate of approximately £500/day if you take four weeks off per year. This is slightly higher than the median but reasonably achievable (more so in London). https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/Contract-IT-Job-Market

Same in Switzerland, for contractors (actually more than 150k/year)

Care to elaborate? What kind of gigs yield that kind of money and how is taxation for freelancers in Switzerland?

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#48

Post by avaika »

Why is it still important?

The world borders are becoming thinner and thinner (de facto there are no borders between first world countries at all). The companies (especially huge tech) employ and operate internationally for years.

Even though the head quarters might be based in a specific country, it's not fair to call the company American or European.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#49

Post by synthmeat »

Bureaucracy, market heterogeneity, risk-aversion, and brain-drain to places where there's less such limits. Not all is on us to blame, of course. USA has had a huge historical developmental advantage in tech space.

From sibling comments, I see there's a lot of content with the way of life in Europe, so I guess there's that too. I don't see it myself.

Re: Why Can’t Europe Do Tech?

#50

Post by blattimwind »

Tech (Bloomberg): smartphone apps, funded by VC and ad money.

Not Tech (Bloomberg): making software and machines used to build billions of units across hundreds of sectors per year, and also building billions of units across hundreds of sectors per year, developing new t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶o̶l̶o̶g̶i̶e̶s̶ things (since this isn't tech) and spending god-knows-how-many billions on R&D and so on.

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