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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

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Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#101

Post by DZittersteyn »

jhasse wrote: post #73
merinowool wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> you have to give away sometimes more than half of it Where? This is the tax in Germany for example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/ES...

The highest tax rate in the Netherlands is 51,95% (Note that this only covers anything you make over ~70k+ a year, 0-20k is taxed ~35%, and 20-70 is taxed 40%). Then you pay 6-21% VAT over anything you buy, so yeah, in some scenarios you definitely lose >50% of your gross income to taxes.

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/...

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#102

Post by pc86 »

sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

How many people are experts in a non-JS server language and CSS at the same time? Assuming anyone even falls into that category, how many of them want to work for someone else as opposed to just doing their own thing?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#103

Post by sametmax »

dcbadacd wrote: post #76
emilfihlman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. All tech companies in Finland are like "We can't find enough competent coders!" and newspapers are publishing that as is. Well, no shit, because your pay is shit.

Same in Estonia, some companies complain they can't find competent coders, and that we have to import from India...

Which is a joke because you have some damn good coders in Estonia. And the salary is even lower than in France.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#104

Post by ceejayoz »

Markoff wrote: post #70
samsolomon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you pay for an LA Times subscription? Do you know anybody that would? The newspaper business is struggling as is. Every time a publication is blocked in Europe people complain. Ads were the answer for most online publications, but showing targeted ads now pose a legal risk. I don't know about their business ops, but I'd suspect they've done the math and decided it isn't worth the effort to change their platform…

you know there are news websites based in Europe right?

Sure, and they're a) subject to European regulators and b) have a largely European audience.

The same is not true for the LA Times.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#105

Post by beagle3 »

gt2 wrote: post #42
vfc1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked around in a couple of european countries and I can confirm that the freelance rates for software development today are the same or typically less than in 2001. The software developer golden age was in the mid-nineties here in Europe, and then the rates and salaries have stagnated (but not the inflation). Also, the contractual conditions are getting worse. We are now many times offered contracts with a ter…

How is that enforced on the employer side, keeping employees in their contract?

Freelancers are not legally employees (they are contractors), this employee protection laws do not apply.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#106

Post by dnomad »

Low wages are not a problem per se.

In the situation of low wages what is supposed to happen is the best workers either (a) move to competitors or (b) just strike out on their own and start their own business. If businesses are colluding on low wages (and it's very clear they are) then eventually we should see people starting new businesses.

This dynamic by the way is absolutely clear in East Asia and China, in particular. Wages are rising fast and the best workers aren't afraid to bounce away for higher salary or, if it comes down to it, to buckle down and strike out on their own.

But this dynamic has been completely lost in the US. Even as the economy "improves" we are seeing labor market fluidity has collapsed the US [1]. This has been going on since the 80s. Entrepeneurship and new firm formation have been declining for the last 40 years [2]. The end result: lots of people stuck in jobs they don't like and businesses, knowing full well that their workers are stuck and won't go, offer essentially zero wage increases.

[1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/feds/2016/files/2...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/business/economy/startup-...

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#107

Post by wonderwonder »

Why would they pay more, if they just hold out long enough, someone will take the job. If enough companies do this, a new wage rate is established.

We are in a strange time with globalism, companies are in a race to the bottom in regards to employee pay. Employees are losing negotiating leverage as their employer can simply turn to emerging markets to hire talent for half the price. Granted that talent may not be as good but they also save on benefits.

There is also a critical level where if enough companies are paying low wages, the employees cant just threaten to go somewhere else and make more, there is no where else. So they have to eat and take the lower salary job, setting a new lower median wage for the market place. Meanwhile the cost of basic goods continues to rise.

Communism is nonsense, but Marxism has a very important point in that the primary driver of world power is not countries but classes, those that hold the means of production and money against everyone else.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#108

Post by jermaustin1 »

vfc1 wrote: post #77
Nursie wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this a lot in the UK, and it's why I'm now a contractor. You will have 10 years experience, a relevant degree, security clearance and no boundaries when it comes to overtime. We will pay you £35k! The sad thing is, they will fill that position, with someone not very good, with low expectations and no confidence in themselves. And they will get mediocre work, which they expect.

In the UK I guess it depends a lot on the region, those are not, for example, London rates, right?

I do contract webdev work for a multi-national in the middle of nowhere in Connecticut. The london office posted a job that is exactly what I do but is paid 5 times less. At the Edinburgh office, 7 times less.

Same company, same upper-upper-upper management, but VASTLY different pay scales. Its nuts to think about, especially when I can rent a full 3 bed/3 bath house with basement and garage for about 2 times less than a 1 bedroom flat in London.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#109

Post by rhino369 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #39

I worked for a Canadian company that's absolutely hemmoraging talent because they refuse to pay well. I'm now paid about 50% more to work remotely for a US company in an environment that is far far more fitting of my life goals of being with my kids as they grow up. It's beyond bizarre to watch them continue to refuse to pay anyone properly despite their imminent collapse.

The Great Recession caused a huge disruption in the labor market for 7 years. Companies got used to having all the bargaining chips.

My company my brother works for put in place a lot of policies during that time frame that no longer make sense. Things like making it hard to give employees raises. And setting Byzantine salary ranges based on job title.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#110

Post by jhasse »

rglullis wrote: post #92
jhasse wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have to give away sometimes more than half of it Where? This is the tax in Germany for example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/ES...

Bear in mind this is only income tax . If you put deductions like health insurance (mandatory, and also dependent on income level) my take-home pay was indeed less than 50%.

Right, but that money isn't used for the benefits of "people who don't give a flying toss" - you'll get a value out of it (health insurance).

Furthermore you'd also need to take into account all the costs you can set off against tax liability.

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