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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

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Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#71

Post by snarf21 »

lkrubner wrote: post #4

It’s interesting how much momentum there is in these processes. After several decades of big wage gains, during the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, the nominal increases could not be stopped, even as the economy weakened in the 1970s and 1980s. Back then all the wage cuts had to done through inflation. Nowadays there is no inflation, and no momentum to restart wage increases. This part of the article says it right: “””The u…

This is absolutely correct however the one dichotomy is that we are also the collective shareholders (obviously not majority). People love seeing their 401K go up 15% annually year over year. That is only happening because of this funneling.

Collectively we need to stop wanting it both ways. We want cheap goods but then complain about offshoring and outsourcing of labor. Look at dollar stores: Their boom happened almost immediately after Clinton re-opened trade with China. Wal-Mart went from "proudly made in the USA" to cheapest crap they can buy. It annoys me when some people talk about changing X but neglect to even try to think about what change that might cause for Y and Z.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#72

Post by Nursie »

merinowool wrote: post #55
sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

[flagged]

Oh shush, taxes are not 'extreme' in most of Europe, and you get a lot for your money - healthcare for example.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#73

Post by jhasse »

merinowool wrote: post #55
sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

[flagged]

> you have to give away sometimes more than half of it

Where?

This is the tax in Germany for example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/ES...

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#74

Post by Waterluvian »

eloff wrote: post #66
Waterluvian wrote: post #39

I worked for a Canadian company that's absolutely hemmoraging talent because they refuse to pay well. I'm now paid about 50% more to work remotely for a US company in an environment that is far far more fitting of my life goals of being with my kids as they grow up. It's beyond bizarre to watch them continue to refuse to pay anyone properly despite their imminent collapse.

It's bizarre. Even Amazon Seattle pays 2x the salaries of Amazon Vancouver, even although they are separated by only 200km and are the same company! I ask every Canadian developer I meet, why are you still here? I like living in Canada, so I work remotely even although I don't really like remote work. Instant 70% raise.

Yeah I've had a number of jobs I turned down because I simply don't want to live in the US. There's just something about the calm nature of where I live that's worth a lot to me.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#75

Post by aplummer »

matte_black wrote: post #34
HenryBemis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

..and the “Rat race” I mentioned on a previous comment above is that exactly perpetual effort to cover that +25% as you very correctly stated of “more expensive lifestyle” that we impose to ourselves.

As a counter argument, never forget you can be a responsible saver one day, only to be dead and buried the next. If you want to guarantee an expensive lifestyle, it’s best to obtain it as immediately as possible.

Thank god somebody said it. We are in the golden age of cheap travel and leisure, perhaps the golden age of all ages (and certainly of all past).

People spend your easy money and enjoy youth IMO.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#76

Post by dcbadacd »

emilfihlman wrote: post #30
sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

Exactly this. All tech companies in Finland are like "We can't find enough competent coders!" and newspapers are publishing that as is. Well, no shit, because your pay is shit.

Same in Estonia, some companies complain they can't find competent coders, and that we have to import from India...

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#77

Post by vfc1 »

Nursie wrote: post #58
sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

I see this a lot in the UK, and it's why I'm now a contractor. You will have 10 years experience, a relevant degree, security clearance and no boundaries when it comes to overtime. We will pay you £35k! The sad thing is, they will fill that position, with someone not very good, with low expectations and no confidence in themselves. And they will get mediocre work, which they expect.

In the UK I guess it depends a lot on the region, those are not, for example, London rates, right?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#78

Post by Ygg2 »

koolba wrote: post #63
muse900 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My example comes from Greece where I reside for the past 9 months. People owning touristic buisnesses on the islands are moaning about how much they need more staff and can't find any, and they are arguing why younger people tend to not work and just receive benefits instead of going to work. The argument here that they won't understand though is that, 1st they are paying very low. They are all willing to pay the min…

> The unemployment benefit is 400+ euros per month. So tell me who in their right minds would go to work for 500 euros or even 800 euros, whilst they have to spend petrol to get from and to work, work prolly 10+ hours a day, in the sun most likely cause thats what means tourism industry, There are always people who don't just want to live off the dole. Also a lot of the people who complain about crappy entry level wa…

> a commune where workers decide on their own what they'll be working on?

Even a commune where workers "decide on their own", has bosses. They are just not called bosses. See any of the '70 and '80 communes.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#79

Post by Cthulhu_ »

samsolomon wrote: post #40
dijit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same message in Sweden, shame they can't find to operate business without abusing user data. Still there's an archive.is link listed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17506215

Would you pay for an LA Times subscription? Do you know anybody that would? The newspaper business is struggling as is. Every time a publication is blocked in Europe people complain. Ads were the answer for most online publications, but showing targeted ads now pose a legal risk. I don't know about their business ops, but I'd suspect they've done the math and decided it isn't worth the effort to change their platform…

You don't need to be not-GDPR-compliant to display ads and do user tracking. Just inform the user and give them the option to opt out of tracking / storing data. Ads won't be as optimized for the user, but they'll still be there.

And of course they can offer a subscription.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#80

Post by throwaway494949 »

sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

If you're a senior software engineer, come to Sweden. You'll at least get 6000 usd/month as an employee. Management usually has a background in tech, you get lots of vacation, parental leave, etc. You're not expected to stay longer than 5 pm and working from home is common. There are many interesting jobs in finance, telecom, automotive, entertainment, medicine, defence, and there are plenty of startups.

I work as a contractor in Stockholm (long term assignments; basically like employment but I pay my own taxes), and I can save ~80k usd per year (after expenses and taxes, no family though, but I live in the city center). To get paid more, I either have to specialize hard or move to Silicon Valley.

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