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Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#101

Post by stevenwoo »

jaredklewis wrote: post #46
stevenwoo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Permanent immigration is still closed off for the vast majority, except for IT workers and the articles quotes companies that hired mostly Chinese/Indian engineers for those positions. Every other career is limited to 5-10 years stay in Japan with restrictions on staying with an employer and difficulties in bringing a spouse and how much that spouse can work once there - it's much more of a temporary thing as describ…

> Every other career is limited to 5-10 years stay in Japan with restrictions on staying with an employer and difficulties in bringing a spouse and how much that spouse can work once there - it's much more of a temporary thing as described in the article versus paths available to immigrants to the USA. I know people in Tokyo with working visas who are architects, waiters, dish washers, cooks, English teachers, academ…

That's weird that the article gets those basic facts wrong because it talks about the abuse of the employer thing and recent reforms for it and the lack of a path for permanent status. I was wondering why some of the people they interviewed wanted to have their spouses move there or invested so much in learning Japanese based on the facts listed in the article. It makes more sense with what you wrote.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#102

Post by mirimir »

doyoulikeworms wrote: post #92
sonnyblarney wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way that Japanese treat outsiders is so far from the popular Western ideal of what 'racism' means that I'd argue the term barely applies. 'Racism' is a loaded term that has little meaning in most situations because it entirely depends on context. Sure, if someone is calling a black guy the n-world, well then yes, we can safely use that term. But if we consider that the vast majority of the world is inherently eth…

From what I’ve read, they way they treat ethnic Koreans living in Japan sounds racist to me.

Takashi Miike is ethnic Korean. Many of his films address issues faced by ethnic Chinese and Koreans in Japan. The Triad Society, Young Thugs and Dead or Alive series, for example. For the most part, they're quite violent.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#103

Post by taneq »

icelancer wrote: post #86
volgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

>> The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Yes, Westerners call it this. And in our eyes, it is. Japanese don't particularly buy that brand of shame, though.

The whole idea that racism / ethnicism is bad is a very Western stance. In the rest of the world, discrimination based on race and country of origin is pretty normal.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#104

Post by ausvisaissues »

lovemenot wrote: post #63
jaredklewis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every other career is limited to 5-10 years stay in Japan with restrictions on staying with an employer and difficulties in bringing a spouse and how much that spouse can work once there - it's much more of a temporary thing as described in the article versus paths available to immigrants to the USA. I know people in Tokyo with working visas who are architects, waiters, dish washers, cooks, English teachers, academ…

That figure of 10 years for a probably successful permanent residency application is out of date. It's apparently more like 5 years these days.

If you have a highskilled visa with 80 points, it is 1 year (however, it takes 10 months after application to get it).

High-skilled visas are not connected to an employer and there is no lottery system.beats the hell out of US policies...

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#105

Post by jaredklewis »

stevenwoo wrote: post #101
jaredklewis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every other career is limited to 5-10 years stay in Japan with restrictions on staying with an employer and difficulties in bringing a spouse and how much that spouse can work once there - it's much more of a temporary thing as described in the article versus paths available to immigrants to the USA. I know people in Tokyo with working visas who are architects, waiters, dish washers, cooks, English teachers, academ…

That's weird that the article gets those basic facts wrong because it talks about the abuse of the employer thing and recent reforms for it and the lack of a path for permanent status. I was wondering why some of the people they interviewed wanted to have their spouses move there or invested so much in learning Japanese based on the facts listed in the article. It makes more sense with what you wrote.

Sorry, to clarify: I don't mean to dispute the article. But I think the article is focusing on a specific government trainee program that's been spun up to bring constructions workers for the Olympics.

I just think you were mistaken about the "every other [non-IT] career" part. There is plenty of immigration outside of the discussed trainee program and outside IT, so I just wanted to highlight that. Because otherwise it sounds like Japan has some kind of totally crazy locked down immigration system, but that is really not the case.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#106

Post by spicytunacone »

mikekchar wrote: post #61
volgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

Every time this pops up, I feel compelled to point out that in the 8 years I've lived in Japan (over a 10 year period), I haven't found this to be true. There is racism in Japan, just like everywhere. When I lived in Canada, I saw a sales manager where I was working throwing how CVs with Indian names. I asked him what he was doing. "There's no point in hiring someone whose name I can't even pronounce", was the reply.…

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Never set foot in Japan myself but your overall view falls in line with those of almost every foreigner in Japan I've ever followed. Something I find that's less discussed, probably because I only frequent English speaking sites, is specifically other Asians in Japan and I'm wondering if someone here can shed some light on that. The impression I have from reading random accounts is Koreans and Chinese (perhaps all of Mainland, Taiwan and Hong Kong?) are expected to conduct themselves like any other Japanese and fully integrate, whereas Caucasian gaijin (or any Westernized people as your wife's anecdote seems to imply) are comparatively given more leeway (expected to do things their own way, but as a corollary never thought of as fully Japanese)?

The model I have in my head is that the average Japanese who doesn't know your deal will put you in one of two categories:

A) You are a temporary visitor. A tourist on vacation or business trip.

B) You are a full fledged member of Japanese society.

So the more "foreign" you seem, the more likely you are to be considered "A". I'm particularly interested in Southeast Asians: are they expected to be more Japanese/Asian or "other"? I guess the temporal nature of their visas helps cement them as the latter.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#107

Post by hkmurakami »

the_new_guy29 wrote: post #55
forkLding wrote: post #6

Not surprised, this is what happens when you "close" off immigration, aging population, have a decrease in new births, restrict most immigrant workers/immigrants to temporary visas/temporary work terms despite length of stay and have a politically conservative mentality towards immigrants. You either invest into more technologies that allow for less labour input or you basically have to somehow increase labour input.…

They are still closed for 99% of people who would like to immmigrate there. They only need highly skilled profesionals, not masses for cheap. Best part is Japan just doesn't care if other countries see it as racist nation - they still get going strong. And im 100% sure if anyone if going to find a solution to ever growing needs of capitalism without immigration it would be them.

At least for labor supply they have a huge untapped resource - women.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#108

Post by joshe »

weiming wrote: post #22

The article doesn't mention, but Japan also took steps to make immigration easier for skilled workers with the Highly-Skilled Foreign Professional visa [1] based on this point system [2]. Can even qualify for permanent residency in as little as one year if you score 80+ points. [1] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/ [2] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet...

Pulling out the hacker part:

  40 points for > 10 million yen salary ($91,000)

  10 for a bachelors
  20 for a masters
  30 for a phd

  20 for 10 years experience
  15 for 7 years experience
  10 for 5 years experience
  5 for 3 years experience

  age
  15 for
And bonuses for language proficiency, working for small-medium companies that spend on R and D (startups?) and holding a foreign qualification.

With the right salary ($91K/year):

24 year old, with bachelors, and 3 years work experience? you are in.

40 year old, with bachelors, and 10 years work experience? you are in.

Remarkably open. Far more so than the US.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#109

Post by lev99 »

iandanforth wrote: post #99
jpatokal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the points requirements are too high for the type of young entrepreneurial people Japan wants to attract, and Japan itself is not attractive for the high rollers of the professional or scientific world that would qualify. In the 5+ years since it was rolled out, the number of successful applicants is less than 5000, most of whom were apparently Chinese nationals already in Japan. https://www.nippo…

Am I reading this wrong? It looks like you get 40 points for having a salary of 10M yen. That's not very high for tech jobs. That plus having a few years of experience, a bachelors, and being under 40 gets you past the 70 point bar at least.

A tech job making 10M yen in Japan is a very different experience than a tech job in the US making 100k+ a year.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#110

Post by jaredklewis »

icelancer wrote: post #87
jaredklewis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is race used to deny people things in Japan?

Huh? How about trying to rent property. Landlords overwhelmingly deny non-Nihojin non-salarymen.

While I don't doubt there are landlords out there that would deny foreigners an apartment, my experience is that:

- It is not "overwhelmingly." I would guess a very small number of landlords consider anything other than the tenet's potential to make rent every month and how long they will stay.

- Even in the aforementioned cases, it is not racial and has more to do with perception of foreigners (that we can't sort garbage, that we don't speak Japanese, and so on). I imagine this hypothetically "racist" landlord would probably also deny an American that was ethnically Japanese.

But most cases of a foreigner getting denied a lease are just simple economics. Landlords in Japan are, on the whole, very risk adverse. They want tenets with stable jobs and guarantors. Often, foreigners don't have those things. Just like foreigners, Japanese have to provide proof of a stable job and have a guarantor when renting. Landlords also want tenets that are likely to stay put so they don't have to go through the hassle of filling the apartment. If you're on a 1 year working holiday visa, that puts a natural limit on how long you can stay.

Landlords often have a choice of tenets and I think they generally behave in their own economic self-interest. Ask a typical Japanese landlord to choose between a foreigner employed at Sony with his manager as a guarantor and a Japanese student that graduates in 1 year guaranteed by his parents. My money is they pick the foreigner.

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