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The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

evolution-institute.org

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Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#171
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you join a fundamentalist cult, then yes. Lots of modern churches are non-denominational and quite relaxed. In fact, they are surprisingly similar to the entity being described in the article.

I'm pretty sure a belief in the major parts of the bible are necessary, are they not? I mean, I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Without that, well is that 'church' ?

There are lots of good sibling comments to this one, but I want to get one more point in before we all move on.

Spending an hour yielding to something larger than yourself is probably good for the soul and definitely good for the ego. You can walk into almost any church, and there you will find a quiet space where you can meditate/pray. You can find a sort of comfort in its 2000 year history, and in the myths/rituals of our past and the people who believe in them. If you are made to feel uncomfortable, then try another one or stop going altogether, there are literally zero negative consequences to it.

The point of this is that you don't have to swear an oath to little baby jesus to get a benefit from a modernized church. You can make of it what you want, they won't mind in the least.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#172
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure a belief in the major parts of the bible are necessary, are they not? I mean, I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Without that, well is that 'church' ?

There are lots of good sibling comments to this one, but I want to get one more point in before we all move on. Spending an hour yielding to something larger than yourself is probably good for the soul and definitely good for the ego. You can walk into almost any church, and there you will find a quiet space where you can meditate/pray. You can find a sort of comfort in its 2000 year history, and in the myths/rituals…

I don't believe in any larger things so I'm not sure I would find any benefit in that.

I mean, other than the whole universe I suppose, but I find the night sky in a remote location gives me the headspace I need to appreciate that.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's very useful to quote the bible as a source of what Christians believe. So far as I can tell, only a tiny sliver of Christians believe the work in its entirety.

I've always assumed the reason is because only a tiny sliver of Christians have actually read the whole bible - so they probably have no idea what it says. A quick google search seems to confirm my assumption [1]. [1] http://www.christianity.com/1270946/

I've always assumed it's because if you read it it's filled with some awesome love/acceptance/transcendence stuff and some really terrible bronze age horrors. It would be too terrible to actually take it at face value.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that answer the question? Can you break it down simply?

In this question I saw one of the classic agnostic lines of thought which is "If there is a God, why would he care about us at all? Why would he care what we think, say and do? We can't be the center of the Universe. We can't be the focus of all creation. That's just hubris." I love this question, because its humble, searching, sincere. Why does God want our praise? He, or any deity, is far far above it. Why go throu…

Very interesting, thank you for the response. How can God be perfect and just if he is possessive and jealous? Maybe God isn't actually a perfect being , but instead an advanced creature (who seems to be fairly needy) living in a higher order universe playing with a giant lego set (our own universe). But then who created God and the world he lives in? Heh.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#175

The article resonates strongly with me. In college, I felt part of (and strongly resonated with) the Penn CS / hacker community. Moving to SF after graduation, I had lots of varying friendships and relationships, but there was no unifying community (IE, the graph of relationships and acquaintances was too sparse). The closest I came to community was based on workplace. When I left the US and began traveling the world…

I've also found similar things in the "Burner" community (ie: people who participate in Burning Man and the many regional events).

I don't mean to suggest that everyone would have the same interests or that there aren't also a lot of people who just go to the festivals because they're fun festivals. Still, it has ticked a lot of the same "boxes" for me.

Ideally, it's a community that's based on participation. When you go to a burn, the idea is to bring something to contribute, whether it's interactive art to play with, food to share, a bar with great cocktails, or a comfortable place where people can hang out and relax in the shade.

I enjoy it because it provides both an outlet for my creative/artsy interests as well as my enjoyment of building things and working on interesting projects with other people.

When I go to one of the burn events, there are more people interested in talking to me and working with me on stuff than just about anywhere I've been and I'd imagine this is a lot like the hacker space scene. It's been a fun way to meet people with similar (or different) interests whereas at work I only interact with one or two people who I might do those sorts of things outside of the office.

If I go to another region or town, I can be reasonably assured that if there is a burner community, I'd have a place to socialize and meet people to work on projects with. The concept has spread worldwide so burners or people with similar interests are easier to find than I would've imagined.

As far as initiations and rituals, there are some good examples. The "burn night" is like a huge communal party and walking around I get wished a "happy Burnday". When you arrive (especially as a "virgin" at your first event) you can get a playful spank with a paddle or (if you don't want such a thing) maybe a hug or at least some smiles. People often give nicknames known as "burn names" or "playa names" that are probably closest to the nicknames people get in the military (sometimes jokingly deprecating, sometimes honorific, etc).

Instead of strict commandments or laws, there are principles. Principles allow for interpretation and discussion but still provide a framework and a unifying set of things most participants value to at least some level. Examples are participation, civic responsibility, communal effort, gifting, de-commodification, self-expression, and leaving no trace (since the events typically take place in a camping setting).

I know that Burning Man and the associated regional scenes have a reputation as being just big parties all about debauchery and crazy outfits (or none at all). While there is certainly an element of hedonism should you desire it, the communal effort and focus on working together and being yourself while not hurting anyone else or the community have really impressed me.

I've been going to some regional events for several years now and while I don't live the stereotypical "burner" lifestyle every day, I love having a community in most places I go and a group of people I can meet up with and find those with common interests who want to work on projects together.

And the best part is you get to share all of those projects and brainstorms with loads of other people when you attend one of the events. It's like a huge artsy, techie pot-luck where everyone brings something to share and gets to go try all the things the other people brought along. I'm always astounded by the amount of creativity, talent, and work on display when you get several people (or several thousand) all trying to bring their "A-game" to share with everyone else.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#176

The article resonates strongly with me. In college, I felt part of (and strongly resonated with) the Penn CS / hacker community. Moving to SF after graduation, I had lots of varying friendships and relationships, but there was no unifying community (IE, the graph of relationships and acquaintances was too sparse). The closest I came to community was based on workplace. When I left the US and began traveling the world…

hey thanks for sharing your take here. As someone interested in creating secular community, this was inspiring.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#177
post #166
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment was none of those things. Religion is intrinsically related to the topic of secularism.

A generic drive-by provocation about religion is all of those things (as is clear from this ridiculous subthread) and not welcome on Hacker News. Please don't do it again.

It wasn't "drive-by" it was directly related to the topic. Please don't post any further insulting condescending comments.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masons are the quintessential white boy money club. They have absolutely nothing to do with actual stone cutting, they have have an infatuation with having a long lived legacy, like the Pyramids.

Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. They claimed to have founded the USA on Masonic principles. http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/14/masons-and... The problem is organizations founded to oppose the Masons are religious just as well for the most part. The ones that are secular aren't that big and don't have the money and volunteers to help out. Corporations have gotten secular like Microsoft and…

> Most of the US founding fathers were Masons.

Like I said. Any sort of good principles, like religious tolerance, was a by product of wanting to put personal wealth as the center of power over religious affiliation. If you want to supplant the church, you don't oppose it directly, you route around it by making it a non-issue.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. They claimed to have founded the USA on Masonic principles. http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/14/masons-and... The problem is organizations founded to oppose the Masons are religious just as well for the most part. The ones that are secular aren't that big and don't have the money and volunteers to help out. Corporations have gotten secular like Microsoft and…

> Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. Like I said. Any sort of good principles, like religious tolerance, was a by product of wanting to put personal wealth as the center of power over religious affiliation. If you want to supplant the church, you don't oppose it directly, you route around it by making it a non-issue.

It is sort of what atheists do these days, route around the church with technology and science. Then get on technology and science issues the church may not approve of and then bring up social issues in the community.

Only thing is that sometimes churches get up on technology, science, and social issues like when Pope Francis supports evolution over creationism and then talks about working with atheists to fight climate change.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of Christ dying was to forgive sins. In the old testament they would sacrifice animals and use the blood of the animals to wash away sin. People would sacrifice animals at the temple with a Priest and collect the blood to wash away their sins. Christ was God's sacrifice to end that practice Christ's blood was shed to wash away our sins. Christ was dead for three days to build a bypass from hell into h…

> When you visit a (fundamental) church you see elderly people, and the sick and disabled, the sort of people who need God. You don't see very many of the young adults who are healthy, if there are any young people they come in with their parents. An observation of the fundamental church at large reflects your statement. I would delimit that statement though to say that there are pockets of thriving 'resistance', so…

I really cannot visit every single church in the USA.

The ones I do visit they are trying to figure out how to get young people involved with them. The Catholic church for example has a shortage of priests and they need more young priests and young volunteers. They need more young people to attend church and donate money as well.

It may be different in where you live because your church has a connection with young people. But near me in the St. Louis MO area, young people are dropping out of church to become non-practicing or atheists.

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