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Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

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Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#51

Post by jerrac »

jlgaddis wrote: post #15
jerrac wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you run into any articles that detail exactly what is captured and sent off of your computer? Has Microsoft release more than just a little bit of information on what they use that info for? Not just what the setting screen and privacy policy say.

It will be impossible to know and/or verify what they're actually sending. Even if they told us exactly what the data contains, though, who will believe them? Besides, we already know what they'll say: they'll use it for debugging and troubleshooting, to make the products better, and to enhance your user experience. In certain circumstances, they may share the data -- but only with their trusted partners, of course.…

I don't think it's impossible. Can't you intercept the traffic via a router or something to see what's in it?

"...what they'll say..." They already said that in their privacy policy. I was wondering if they had released more details. Like "We record your voice commands and add them to a database of millions of other people making the same command so Cortana can understand people better." And, "Our voice interpretation service is provided by a trusted partner. They signed a contract that requires they take this step and this step to keep your data secure."

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#52

Post by ekianjo »

tedunangst wrote: post #39
samspenc wrote: post #2

I just got a new PC with Windows 10, replacing an older PC laptop that's a Windows 7 / Ubuntu dual-boot. (I'm running Ubuntu from a VM this time.) Anyway, Windows 10: I was a bit shocked at all the information it sends back to Microsoft. As soon as the setup screen comes up, it gives you an option to choose "Express Install" or "Custom Install". I chose "Custom Install", and there were about 10 privacy settings that…

Ironic that your other choice is Ubuntu. They pioneered sending back all your search terms (to Amazon).

> They pioneered sending back all your search terms (to Amazon).

You don't have to use Unity to use Ubuntu. There is an abundant choice of WMs on Linux. And besides, even if you had this turned on, it's about nothing compared to what Microsoft does.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#53

Post by jerrac »

ams6110 wrote: post #47
jlgaddis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be impossible to know and/or verify what they're actually sending. Even if they told us exactly what the data contains, though, who will believe them? Besides, we already know what they'll say: they'll use it for debugging and troubleshooting, to make the products better, and to enhance your user experience. In certain circumstances, they may share the data -- but only with their trusted partners, of course.…

For that matter, it's really just a matter of faith that the settings completely disable the sending of this information (or disable it at all).

Yep. Sadly, the only way to be one hundred percent sure your data is private is to keep it in your head. Even building your own chipsets and other components doesn't protect from physical access. So we have to choose who to trust. Currently, that's not Microsoft. If they open sourced, or at least made the code visible, Windows, I'd be a lot happier. 'Course, then I'd have to trust that the people reviewing the code knew what they were doing. Since I'd not spend the time to review the code myself....

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#54

Post by 0xCMP »

na85 wrote: post #36
mirimir wrote: post #33

There are many reasons to choose Windows. For example, Excel is by far the most powerful spreadsheet app. But using Windows where privacy matters is foolish. And trying to lock it down is pointless. If you need Windows for work, or gaming, or whatever, fine. But dedicate a machine to it. And use a different machine for private stuff, running VirtualBox in Debian. Or Qubes, if you're seriously paranoid ;)

Frankly I find the list of reasons to choose Windows is growing ever shorter. I find Windows 10 to be revolting, and the list of reasons to buy it seems to be: * Games * Industry-specific apps like AutoCAD 99% of Excel users would be satisfied by Google Docs or LibreOffice.

I always wonder why people think using Google Docs is more secure and private than Excel and being on Windows. I mean, lets just imagine you're hoping no one is stealing all your data and monitoring you. On one hand, you have Windows and Excel which are closed source and could be sending all that information. On the other hand you have Google Docs hosted on a cloud infrastructure by a company which specializes in searching, indexing, and extracting information from documents. Thanks to technical limitations from it's feature set it records every movement, change, and action forever in the document.

So you run something 10 times worse on a Free OS? You pretty much now only have the option of Libre Office. And to be fair, if Libre Office was good enough you wouldn't have mentioned Google Docs. It works, but it's not Google Docs or Excel.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#55

Post by Kikawala »

curiousjorge wrote: post #42

is it possible to just add a 127.0.0.1 *.microsoft.com in windows 10?

There is a list of entries to put in your hosts files to block all of the known data telemetry hosts here: http://paste2.org/A1sv86VF

source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f38ed/guide_how...

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#56

Post by MichaelGG »

userbinator wrote: post #35
anonbanker wrote: post #6

Switched from Microsoft products in 1999, back when Palladium started. That was offensive enough. This is downright disgusting. I always ask co-workers how much liberty Windows users are willing to sacrifice to continue using their systems. Seems even I underestimated with Windows 10.

I remember Palladium[1] too. It seems back then people were far more concerned about locked-down devices than they are today, where the majority are willing to accept anything that is advertised as being "more secure" - even secure against them. The media's constant reporting of hacks and leaks certainly doesn't help... I wouldn't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but this "security culture" today really makes m…

The truth is that for most users, a locked down device is simply more secure. By controlling the environment tightly, the manufacturer can be sure to exclude malicious software. For example, how easy is it to install a keylogger on an iPhone?

Allowing users to bypass security mechanisms will ensure they get bypassed. Wasn't it Facebook that was having users compromised by attackers tricking users into running code in the console? If iPhones shipped with a special security bypass button or something, it wouldn't be long before people became accustomed to using it and we'd be back to user devices being rooted left and right. This seems like a difficult problem to work around, if we want users to have a "worry free" experience.

I find it disgusting and unfortunate, but I recognize that my desires are not representative of the general market.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#57

Post by captainmuon »

samspenc wrote: post #2

I just got a new PC with Windows 10, replacing an older PC laptop that's a Windows 7 / Ubuntu dual-boot. (I'm running Ubuntu from a VM this time.) Anyway, Windows 10: I was a bit shocked at all the information it sends back to Microsoft. As soon as the setup screen comes up, it gives you an option to choose "Express Install" or "Custom Install". I chose "Custom Install", and there were about 10 privacy settings that…

Most of these settings are probably related to Cortana (the new Siri/Google Now like feature in Windows 10). These kind of tools that suggest information to you only really work if they have your search and location information. If you turn those options off, I guess the only thing that will be affected will be Cortana.

Also, the thing where apps may share a common advertising ID? Sounds invasive, but is actually a tiny step towards more privacy: before, apps (i.e. desktop programs) could access basically any information on your PC: Your name, your address if you entered it anywhere, your contact list, possibly your position. Nowadays, "Modern" apps can only identify you via an pseudonymous ID (if you allow it), unless they have the proper permissions.

What does annoy me is that they still obscure these settings, and fail to explain what exactly they are for. At least they made it a bit more obvious in Windows 10 that you can use it without creating a Microsoft account (using a local account).

There is a saying in Germany: Nothing is eaten as hot as it is cooked.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#58

Post by veidr »

na85 wrote: post #36
mirimir wrote: post #33

There are many reasons to choose Windows. For example, Excel is by far the most powerful spreadsheet app. But using Windows where privacy matters is foolish. And trying to lock it down is pointless. If you need Windows for work, or gaming, or whatever, fine. But dedicate a machine to it. And use a different machine for private stuff, running VirtualBox in Debian. Or Qubes, if you're seriously paranoid ;)

Frankly I find the list of reasons to choose Windows is growing ever shorter. I find Windows 10 to be revolting, and the list of reasons to buy it seems to be: * Games * Industry-specific apps like AutoCAD 99% of Excel users would be satisfied by Google Docs or LibreOffice.

I have witnessed two different trials of Google Apps for "regular" office workers. In my experience, the number of Excel users satisfied with Google's offering is a lot closer to 0% than 99%.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#59

Post by hackuser »

thehacker005263 wrote: post #46
curiousjorge wrote: post #42

is it possible to just add a 127.0.0.1 *.microsoft.com in windows 10?

If that was possible, how are you supposed to get updates then ?

Setup your own WSUS server (or another update server).

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#60

Post by jlgaddis »

jerrac wrote: post #51
jlgaddis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be impossible to know and/or verify what they're actually sending. Even if they told us exactly what the data contains, though, who will believe them? Besides, we already know what they'll say: they'll use it for debugging and troubleshooting, to make the products better, and to enhance your user experience. In certain circumstances, they may share the data -- but only with their trusted partners, of course.…

I don't think it's impossible. Can't you intercept the traffic via a router or something to see what's in it? "...what they'll say..." They already said that in their privacy policy. I was wondering if they had released more details. Like "We record your voice commands and add them to a database of millions of other people making the same command so Cortana can understand people better." And, "Our voice interpretatio…

Well, hopefully they learned something from the NSA documents and are at least encrypting the data they're sending home now. Assuming that they are -- and are doing it properly -- then no, you can't.
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