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Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#31

Post by DanBC »

blackbeard wrote: post #27
anonbanker wrote: post #6

Switched from Microsoft products in 1999, back when Palladium started. That was offensive enough. This is downright disgusting. I always ask co-workers how much liberty Windows users are willing to sacrifice to continue using their systems. Seems even I underestimated with Windows 10.

First post here. I've been lurking for a few months. So, hello. I'm ashamed of myself for exactly this reason. It's no better than smoking. I know it's not good for me but I keep doing it out of apathy and convenience. I know my way around a Linux machine well and have a few production nodes under my command but they never make it to the desktop. There's always some proprietary protocol in the way be it a VPN, remote…

Not trying to persuade you either way but if you do move and try Wine for those applications it'd be much appreciated if you would update the Wine Application Database.

https://appdb.winehq.org/

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#32

Post by userbinator »

jerrac wrote: post #12
samspenc wrote: post #2

I just got a new PC with Windows 10, replacing an older PC laptop that's a Windows 7 / Ubuntu dual-boot. (I'm running Ubuntu from a VM this time.) Anyway, Windows 10: I was a bit shocked at all the information it sends back to Microsoft. As soon as the setup screen comes up, it gives you an option to choose "Express Install" or "Custom Install". I chose "Custom Install", and there were about 10 privacy settings that…

Have you run into any articles that detail exactly what is captured and sent off of your computer? Has Microsoft release more than just a little bit of information on what they use that info for? Not just what the setting screen and privacy policy say.

Putting machines behind a firewall (or even a virtual firewall, as is possible with VMs) could help somewhat, both in determining what it's doing with the network and in blocking unwanted traffic.

Incidentally, one of the features Windows had in 2k and XP that was off by default in Vista, and lost completely in Win7, is a network status icon that shows when the OS is sending/receiving data. Very useful for troubleshooting and identifying unexpected network activity, but its removal makes it much easier for this sort of "phoning home" to go unnoticed... (I know they could've made it lie, but apparently removing it altogether was easier.)

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#33

Post by mirimir »

There are many reasons to choose Windows. For example, Excel is by far the most powerful spreadsheet app. But using Windows where privacy matters is foolish. And trying to lock it down is pointless.

If you need Windows for work, or gaming, or whatever, fine. But dedicate a machine to it. And use a different machine for private stuff, running VirtualBox in Debian. Or Qubes, if you're seriously paranoid ;)

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#34

Post by blackbeard »

DanBC wrote: post #31
blackbeard wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First post here. I've been lurking for a few months. So, hello. I'm ashamed of myself for exactly this reason. It's no better than smoking. I know it's not good for me but I keep doing it out of apathy and convenience. I know my way around a Linux machine well and have a few production nodes under my command but they never make it to the desktop. There's always some proprietary protocol in the way be it a VPN, remote…

Not trying to persuade you either way but if you do move and try Wine for those applications it'd be much appreciated if you would update the Wine Application Database. https://appdb.winehq.org/

It's more that my customers are using it so I have to meet them half way. If I have a greenfield, I'll probably do it in tcl/tk or python/wx but I'm stick maintaining old win32 and winforms stuff for people.

My win32 stuff worked in wine about 7-8 years ago now which was nice.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#35

Post by userbinator »

anonbanker wrote: post #6

Switched from Microsoft products in 1999, back when Palladium started. That was offensive enough. This is downright disgusting. I always ask co-workers how much liberty Windows users are willing to sacrifice to continue using their systems. Seems even I underestimated with Windows 10.

I remember Palladium[1] too. It seems back then people were far more concerned about locked-down devices than they are today, where the majority are willing to accept anything that is advertised as being "more secure" - even secure against them. The media's constant reporting of hacks and leaks certainly doesn't help... I wouldn't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but this "security culture" today really makes me wonder if it's all part of a plan towards an Orwellian society.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computi...

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#36

Post by na85 »

mirimir wrote: post #33

There are many reasons to choose Windows. For example, Excel is by far the most powerful spreadsheet app. But using Windows where privacy matters is foolish. And trying to lock it down is pointless. If you need Windows for work, or gaming, or whatever, fine. But dedicate a machine to it. And use a different machine for private stuff, running VirtualBox in Debian. Or Qubes, if you're seriously paranoid ;)

Frankly I find the list of reasons to choose Windows is growing ever shorter. I find Windows 10 to be revolting, and the list of reasons to buy it seems to be:

* Games * Industry-specific apps like AutoCAD

99% of Excel users would be satisfied by Google Docs or LibreOffice.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#37

Post by dublinben »

anonbanker wrote: post #11
electic wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I was quite shocked myself and I also found the descriptions vague. I wasn't even sure what programs are accessing the data. I really think iOS is the only OS has really done permissions right on the 3rd party level and on the OS level.

A linux distro with sane defaults, robust wine scripts, and no personal information compromises, that is easy to install, could take over the world. I vote KaOS as the base: http://kaosx.us

In my experience, Debian is easier to install than a recent version of Windows. I think it's an excellent choice for almost everyone.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#38

Post by mirimir »

userbinator wrote: post #32
jerrac wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you run into any articles that detail exactly what is captured and sent off of your computer? Has Microsoft release more than just a little bit of information on what they use that info for? Not just what the setting screen and privacy policy say.

Putting machines behind a firewall (or even a virtual firewall, as is possible with VMs) could help somewhat, both in determining what it's doing with the network and in blocking unwanted traffic. Incidentally, one of the features Windows had in 2k and XP that was off by default in Vista, and lost completely in Win7, is a network status icon that shows when the OS is sending/receiving data. Very useful for troublesho…

You can see network traffic in Resource Monitor. And yes, you can block unwanted traffic at the LAN router.

pfSense VM works well as a virtual firewall. With IPv4 and IPv6 deselected on the Local Area Connection, there's no direct connectivity. In the pfSense VM, you bridge WAN to the host NIC, and attach LAN to a host-only adapter.

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#39

Post by tedunangst »

samspenc wrote: post #2

I just got a new PC with Windows 10, replacing an older PC laptop that's a Windows 7 / Ubuntu dual-boot. (I'm running Ubuntu from a VM this time.) Anyway, Windows 10: I was a bit shocked at all the information it sends back to Microsoft. As soon as the setup screen comes up, it gives you an option to choose "Express Install" or "Custom Install". I chose "Custom Install", and there were about 10 privacy settings that…

Ironic that your other choice is Ubuntu. They pioneered sending back all your search terms (to Amazon).

Re: Microsoft to Alter Software in Response to Privacy Concerns (1999)

#40

Post by broham »

sdrinf wrote: post #28
PaulKeeble wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is actually a very similar list to that seen in Windows 8. Windows 8 was a little bit more sneaky however, when you chose custom they were all disabled but if you select express they were enabled. You haven't done all the things necessary to defend your privacy yet, Windows 10 has spread this stuff all over the operating system, its all enabled by default and you need to find it all.

Is there a checklist available on the settings people might perceive as privacy violation, their operational implication, and howto disable it?

This is one of the better ones I've seen: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/30/windows-10-privac...
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