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The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

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Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#61

Post by shanusmagnus »

Animats wrote: post #25

The US used to have that. You can still see the remnants if you look. Rotary International, Kiwanis International, the Independent Order of Foresters, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the Independent Order of Odd Fellows, the National Grange of the Order of Patrons of Husbandry - all those secular fraternal organizations still exist. The core of these organizations was small business owners, a group which once ran their…

I just ran into a Independent Order of Odd Fellow lodge a couple weeks ago, while visiting a new city (Decorah, IA). I thought: what the hell is that? A little googling revealed the underlying ethos of the organization to be highly attractive, but from what I can glean from the website the whole thing seems to have fallen into decay. Pity.

The 'pushback against big business' angle was news to me, though. Interesting perspective. Any references you could recommend to dig into that aspect?

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#62

Post by logicfiction »

wyager wrote: post #39
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do people become less religious only because of a rejection of the supernatural, or for other reasons as well? Sociologically, people mostly become less religious when they feel that they control their own fate, and feel no need to ask for divine intervention. Hence why societies grow less religious as they grow rich and egalitarian , while highly unequal and/or poor societies have a tendency towards greater levels…

What makes you think it's because of a sense of control, as opposed to, say, increased education? This correlates highly with increased wealth.

It's a reasonably studied concept in psychology. Locus of control: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control#Organizationa...

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#63

Post by dd9990 »

hiphipjorge wrote: post #54
dd9990 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite - I miss the community and its events. There's a growing Humanist community where I live precisely for that reason. The vast majority of the population are Catholic so life revolves around Catholic rituals, whether we like it or not. It's great to have secular alternatives for marriages, funerals and baptisms.

Where do you live? What are the alternatives for someone who's curious about these communities?

Ireland. The main humanist group [1] is in Dublin but there's a few smaller groups popping up, for example in Cork [2]. It's mostly an excuse for a chat over pints, but there's also some campaigning, e.g. for a secular education system.

[1] http://www.humanism.ie [2] http://corkhumanists.weebly.com/

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#64

Post by mmcclure »

Nursie wrote: post #42

I, personally, don't have a hole in my life where religion should be. I know people that do, many of them come from religious backgrounds and seek something to replace the religious structure that used to be in their lives. But I .... just don't.

For the most part, my personal experience matches yours, but this is a pretty myopic way of looking at the article. I have great friends that are wonderful and amazingly supportive, but there is something just...different about the church community I grew up in.

Take the example of the truly unfortunate disaster, for example as another commenter mentioned, complications with the birth of a 3rd or 4th child. A "good" church community (that seems like a weird phrase, but go with me for a second) would involve people that you might only have passed in the hallway bringing you food, helping out with your other kids, or other chores that you simply don't have the time or energy to do during your emergency state.

Unless you are truly a social juggernaut with a lot of friends that really care about you that much, you're probably going to end up either suffering substantially on your own trying to keep things together, or your close friends are going to resent you for leaning on them so heavily (particularly if the hypothetical emergency at hand is long lasting).

That was waaay more than I meant to write, but I was honestly having the same thought as you and trying to think through it. I think one of the important things this post is saying is missing is more about a community of support with a broader surface area for support beyond just those closest to you.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#65

Post by rayalez »

We already have plenty of secular communities. Hacker News, sports fans, standup comedians, book clubs, students in college, nerdfighters, groups organizing around hobbies and interests, groups of friends.

Community forms not because religion has something sepcial about it, but because people tend to form communities around any subject they are interested in.

Just because religion used to be there, doesn't mean we have to replace it. We do not need something big and ritualized.

You can't start with an idea to create a community and then invent a set of values that fits everybody, at best nobody will care enough to participate in it. It works in the reverse order.

Whenever there's something worth believing in and organizing around - peoole do that naturally. So instead, we will end up with a lot of small "tribes", communities formed around shared interests, friendships, etc. You can look at reddit to see how process naturally works, and what works well.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#66

Post by Nursie »

mmcclure wrote: post #64
Nursie wrote: post #42

I, personally, don't have a hole in my life where religion should be. I know people that do, many of them come from religious backgrounds and seek something to replace the religious structure that used to be in their lives. But I .... just don't.

For the most part, my personal experience matches yours, but this is a pretty myopic way of looking at the article. I have great friends that are wonderful and amazingly supportive, but there is something just...different about the church community I grew up in. Take the example of the truly unfortunate disaster, for example as another commenter mentioned, complications with the birth of a 3rd or 4th child. A "good"…

I can see that might be appealing to some, but it still doesn't really appeal to me. I'm not sure I'd want a wider community of people I hardly know to rally around me like that.

Perhaps I just haven't been in a bad enough situation, perhaps I do trust my friends and family that much, perhaps I'm just more insular than that. I don't know.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#67

Post by hiphipjorge »

Personally, this really resonates with me. Growing up Catholic (but later abandoning it), I find that the sense of community you get out church is pretty much unrivaled by anything else. I do miss that. The relationships you have with friends, family, coworkers, people who you share a hobby with, etc. is just different.

Also, growing up in a religious environment, you are used to thinking about things higher than yourself such as the meaning of life and morality. I find these questions to still be relevant, and yet, there aren't a lot of spaces outsides religion to explore these topics in a serious way. Philosophy meetups in a bar just don't quite do it for me.

Personally, I think that we've given up a lot more that we think by giving up religion.

I think The School of Life does a good job of tackling this problem. They're not religious, but they've created a community of people who want to actively question and improve how they live in a deeper way than most regular, secular people do.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#69

Post by walshemj »

shanusmagnus wrote: post #61
Animats wrote: post #25

The US used to have that. You can still see the remnants if you look. Rotary International, Kiwanis International, the Independent Order of Foresters, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the Independent Order of Odd Fellows, the National Grange of the Order of Patrons of Husbandry - all those secular fraternal organizations still exist. The core of these organizations was small business owners, a group which once ran their…

I just ran into a Independent Order of Odd Fellow lodge a couple weeks ago, while visiting a new city (Decorah, IA). I thought: what the hell is that? A little googling revealed the underlying ethos of the organization to be highly attractive, but from what I can glean from the website the whole thing seems to have fallen into decay. Pity. The 'pushback against big business' angle was news to me, though. Interesting…

From what I recall a lot of these where set up for those who felt the Masons where it bit to secretive or a bit to Deist for some peoples tastes

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#70

Post by probinso »

Secular Communities don't really need a revolution. There are strong and well founded communities all around the world, and many in the states. They are bonded over like interests, and often strengthened by a total lack of interest in recruiting those who aren't actively seeking them.

In the american north west, I have met many secular art-festival goers, academics/research scientists, swingers, like-sports fans, and community living persons who have total support from their communities. The groups that I've seen most supportive are very inviting, but don't actually recruit at all, nor advertise themselves much.

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