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What is Ethereum?

etherscripter.com

101–105 of 105 posts

Re: What is Ethereum?

#101
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. That's exactly it. People might try to counter by saying that specific cases don't work that way, but that's not what game theory predicts. It won't tell you the outcome of a specific instance of a conflict, but it will predict the overall trend when a winning strategy exists. Traditionally, the counter to exploitable strategies was the honor system. You trusted the people you interacted with not to take adva…

Thanks for some fascinating contributions to this thread. I see both sides of the debate, and lean toward your side. But I also think both sides are probably wrong to speak as if we will have either one system or the other in the foreseeable future. I think it is more likely that government resources and law enforcement will exist alongside any trustless contract system, acting as a failsafe (or guarantor of exploita…

I definitely agree that smart contracts are going to be implemented as another layer. They'll erode the need for traditional enforcement slowly. And while there's a need for resolution when there's a bad contract, that resolution system doesn't always have to be a person.

Here's a simple theoretical example. People operate under a common, universal law system that defines the most basic rights. The rules of this system are only those which everyone who participates can agree to. For example, everyone agrees not to kill each other. People who do not accept these rules can form alternative societies, but they will not be able to access areas under common law through the use of smart locks and the like which restrict access to public spaces only to those who accept basic terms of behavior.

These rules can be under constant revision because the code that runs the base social platform is publicly audited, and anyone can submit a request to edit it. These revisions can be tested at smaller scales just by running the rules in private spaces. In your home, you can set whatever rules you want, but anyone running software with conflicting preferences will be alerted to the changes when they enter. If your home rules become popular with your friends, they may choose to implement them in their home. If enough people adopt them, the community may choose to implement them in certain spaces, and they can propagate outward.

The basis of this type of system would be mutual consent, and what a person consents to do can be adjusted at any time by their own software. It would be important that a person's personal platform was entirely under their control and only interacted with the outside world through approved protocols. Likely this would require a direct brain connection that could not be hacked because of physical safeguards.

Business could be conducted between communities that operated under entirely different rules through automatic contract negotiation. New ideas could spread from private to public spaces automatically through smart social contracts.

This is just one, very basic example of a society run by smart contracts. There's plenty of ways for these types of systems to be exploited, but that's part of the design process of any system. Particularly difficult is the problem of letting a machine which can be manipulated dictate so much of life.

But people's brains can be hacked already. Look at advertising, religious cults, mob mentality. People have always been vulnerable to manipulation, and we have developed an interconnected financial system where almost anything can be bought, especially power. We can learn from existing flaws as we develop new systems to fix the bugs in our biology and political systems that have made us vulnerable. We will definitely introduce new vulnerabilities. We just have to make sure we have a robust plan for continued development to respond to them.

Re: What is Ethereum?

#102
post #98
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. That's exactly it. People might try to counter by saying that specific cases don't work that way, but that's not what game theory predicts. It won't tell you the outcome of a specific instance of a conflict, but it will predict the overall trend when a winning strategy exists. Traditionally, the counter to exploitable strategies was the honor system. You trusted the people you interacted with not to take adva…

If you asked Nash what he thought of game theory if he was alive today, he would tell you it have very little to do with how most people interact with each other. It was said earlier. People get into contracts out of desperation or ignorance. Therefore there are contracts that are not mutually beneficial. Since the vast majority of the people of this world are desperate or ignorant, ethereum can become a frightening…

Game theory is usually presented as the science of human interaction, but I admit that I have no special knowledge about what Nash might think. I do think that individual interactions are very different from overall trends in the same way that the structure of how two grains of sand interact with each other is different from the structure of a beach as a whole.

I have no doubt that every new technology invites exploitation, and you're right to think about the consequences. That's an essential part of the design process of any technology, especially one that's general useful. That's the reason why we have such complicated software licenses.

But EvilCorp doesn't need smart contracts to send robots to steal your children. It will definitely use them if they're convenient, but they could just as easily go with the traditional human blood on dead trees contract that's ensnared many souls. Smart contracts add very little to their already efficient operation. But the people who can't afford to hire lawyers, bribe the police, and build robot armies will benefit a lot from enforceable contracts that don't require huge resources to enforce for purely digital transactions.

Re: What is Ethereum?

#103
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> outsourcing of third-party verifiers Since people using the network will be in control of constructing their own contracts, they will have an incentive to draft the contract in such a way as to make sure they'll have control over this "outside verifier"; it could even be same company which it chooses to be the "verifier". > trusted third-party institutions The defeats the previous attempt at decentralization, by re…

Your counterparty will not agree to an arbitrator that is not neutral, so there is market for third-party verifiers who have a reputation for trustworthiness.

In some cases yes, but if your counterparty is Facebook (or commercial svc) you don't have any negotiating power. Either you accept their terms or don't use their Service

Re: What is Ethereum?

#104
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your counterparty will not agree to an arbitrator that is not neutral, so there is market for third-party verifiers who have a reputation for trustworthiness.

In some cases yes, but if your counterparty is Facebook (or commercial svc) you don't have any negotiating power. Either you accept their terms or don't use their Service

That problem is orthogonal to the discussion and not absent in real contracts either.

Re: What is Ethereum?

#105
post #17
post #2

Ether is law, but the example contract says nothing about websites, nor has any provisions to enforce the transfer of said site. I think it's more appropriate to say that ethereum is naive

If we are being fair here neither does a traditional contract. The enforcement of a that contract falls to person (i.e Policeperson, Bailiff). The benefit of etherscript in theory at least is that the wording of the contract is unambiguous, with the caveat that there may still be some areas where ambiguity is unavoidable. Which means that in the case of a website a digital bailiff could enforce the transfer. This is…

The debate in law is usually about what the words mean rather than what words appear in the contract. (Of course there are always issues where contracts have been lost, etc)
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