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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#411

Post by jsnell »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #399

As is always the case, these comparisons are almost always ideologically biased nonsense. What I am saying is that you can't compare two countries with such dissimilar profiles without examining and making sense of a lot of data. And you certainly can't conclude that one has a great work culture and the other does not. Just a few data points... Population US 320,000,000 CH 8,000,000 Employment among 15 to 65 year old…

> I'd like someone to explain the impact of a per-capita debt of over $150K and 229% of GDP on the People's Republic of Switzerland.

The explanation is simply that you're using the wrong data. Kind of embarrassing for someone who is complaining about how nobody else understands the importance of numbers and spreadsheets.

The number you've marked as "national debt" is actually "external debt", which is a totally irrelevant statistic. It's the amount of debt owed to entities in different countries by business, invididuals and the the government. It's particularly meaningless because it's only looking at debts rather than both debts and credits. Switzerland is in fact a net international creditor.

The number you should be using is the government debt. Unfortunately it's going to be pretty bad for your incredibly insulting "People's Republic of Switzerland" narrative. That'd be 34% of GDP for CH, 102% for USA.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#412

Post by tluyben2 »

fab13n wrote: post #117
blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Reading this as a European, it's fun and telling that you focused on salary differences, whereas what mattered to me were the other quality-of-life elements (I assume you're living in the US). To sum up, what matters to me, in what she described, were the consequences of the belief that one shouldn't be ashamed of having a life outside of work, and needing some time and peace of mind to actually enjoy it. More money…

Well. Not sure if this is the EU only but I am from the Netherlands and moved to Spain. Cost went down, quality of life is so much higher it now seems like a joke I ever lived in the Netherlands. And was born there. If quality of life is what you are working for the south of the EU is something to consider.

Disclaimer: I am very leftish ( I was very right when I was young; if you will not work fuck off ) by circumstance : by design of what you and me do, there will be no jobs like there are now. And people cannot die in the streets so we need to change things. I spend all my waking ours trying to do that and loving it.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#413

Post by tluyben2 »

masklinn wrote: post #258
dubcanada wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maternity leave in America is basically unpaid vacation. In most countries you get paid maternity leave. Vacation time is also the lowest (2 weeks) compared to Europe which on average has 4 weeks of vacation time. Where did you get your information about healthcare from? Very affordable healthcare in America? Seriously, what are you smoking?

> Vacation time is also the lowest (2 weeks) compared to Europe which on average has 4 weeks of vacation time. The EU mandates a minimum of 4 weeks, so 4 weeks could hardly be the average.

I am not sure in which EU countries you get less? It is a question.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#414

Post by tluyben2 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #324
jqm wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little surprised by the negative reaction. You people don't derive pleasure from working... from the process of building things, from molding reality? I damn sure do. But then again... I'm an American.

It's not contradictory at all. One can derive pleasure from working, and still enjoy their free time. The good thing about free time is that you can use it to build things if that's what you want. And don't forget that most people don't have the luxury of an enjoyable job.

That last point is debatable in the Western world but yes it holds globally.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#415

Post by tluyben2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #332
Daishiman wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS. I have seen far fewer Americans in a position where they can take the Friday afternoons off like a lot of Europeans can. Or extended paternity leaves. Or sabbaticals. I have yet to see a software company in the US with the amount of time off as European companies despite the fact that most of the people I know in the US would trade salary for time off. It's simply a race to the bottom; with no incentive for emplo…

America needs sane ("first world") labor regulations (mandatory vacation/sick time, longer maternity/paternity leave, etc).

I have come to believe, for better or worse, that you cannot be the leading economical force with those things in place. I think it is needed for that.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#416

Post by tluyben2 »

EliRivers wrote: post #241
jqm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More money would make me happier. I'd give up a few Saturdays for it. One day a week is enough rest. Besides, few pleasures compare to productively working.

few pleasures compare to productively working There is something seriously wrong here. Many, many pleasures in life are as pleasurable, or more pleasurable, than productively working. For many people, productively working is actually not pleasurable.

Few pleasures compare to earning money/kudos/badges with something you love. Productivity? Eh? I worked stacking shopping goods for supermarkets when I was 13; doing 1000 did not feel better than 200 for anyone there, including the full time staff. I understand you probably meant something else but productivity needs definition here.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#417

Post by jstuxx »

tluyben2 wrote: post #412
fab13n wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this as a European, it's fun and telling that you focused on salary differences, whereas what mattered to me were the other quality-of-life elements (I assume you're living in the US). To sum up, what matters to me, in what she described, were the consequences of the belief that one shouldn't be ashamed of having a life outside of work, and needing some time and peace of mind to actually enjoy it. More money…

Well. Not sure if this is the EU only but I am from the Netherlands and moved to Spain. Cost went down, quality of life is so much higher it now seems like a joke I ever lived in the Netherlands. And was born there. If quality of life is what you are working for the south of the EU is something to consider. Disclaimer: I am very leftish ( I was very right when I was young; if you will not work fuck off ) by circumsta…

I've lived in Spain, it's joke since we all here how great the civilized modern organized North where people work hard unlike the barbaric chaotic south filled with lazy who just want holidays and don't pay their taxes. If quality of life is what anyone's looking for, get rich, sacrifice your youth if you have to be, and then retire young (mid-40's early 50's) to some tropical island or some country in South America like Ecuador or Uruguay. The EU is not a good place to be, it is continually getting worse for the people, people are getting angry and people are starting to get violent in some countries.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#418

Post by cmarschner »

Fwiw, this article contains a graphic summarizing vacation days in different EU and non-EU countries. Surprisingly, Portugal and Austria lead the pack: http://m.welt.de/wirtschaft/article144702793/Der-Mann-der-se... There's another graphic where people were asked how much vacation they prefer. Not surprisingly, many want more than what they have... The article, by the way, is about an American who works for only six months per year. That's all possible unless you want to get some financial security (sickness, age, family) or if you are lucky and have a nicely paid seasonal job. I do know examples of people like that - the operators of a sailing/surf school/café, for example, who only work between March and September, but then often 12 hour days.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#419

Post by abalashov »

brewdad wrote: post #360
Mikeb85 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Healthcare is usually part of compensation packages in America. For certain jobs. Many don't provide healthcare. > Things like free tuition are paid for by much higher rates. Higher rates in higher income brackets. Not across the board.

Are tax rates really that much higher though? In my state, middle class pays 25% Federal income tax plus 9% state income tax plus 6.2% SSI tax plus 2.9% Medicare tax plus 0.5% transit tax. That's 43.6%.

It's notoriously difficult to calculate effective taxation in the US since it is fragmented across so many jurisdictions (goes hand in hand with the US's incessant attachment to federalism), and because many of the taxes in this cascade can be partly or wholly deducted from superior taxes (e.g. state taxes deducted from federal taxable income).

Nevertheless, you are correct that the aggregate effect is that we pay roughly the same cumulative tax as the average Western European citizen. A little less, to be sure, but we get vanishingly little for it in social benefits, particularly in the catastrophe that is health care. The result is that we have to pay both sides: pay the government, then pay (gargantuan sums!) out of our own pockets for things like tuition and health care.

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