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Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

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Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#61

Post by calgoo »

martincmartin wrote: post #11
jsmeaton wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by this statement in the article you linked, and I've heard it before: > the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), is the most important free-trade agreement in years How does "29 chapters of dense rules and hundreds of tariff lines " == "free trade"? Free trade is meant to be open, without restriction, and free. Some of the conditions being reported are anything but.

It's lowering barriers to trade, making it easier for goods made in one country to be sold in another. One way it does that is by harmonizing regulations, so you don't need to make different versions for different countries, or pay for lawyers to explain compliance laws separately for each country.

As an example, it lets farmers in Europeans buy soya beans from Brazil to feed their cows in winter. [http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/soy/co...]

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#62

Post by jsmeaton »

snowwrestler wrote: post #56
jsmeaton wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by this statement in the article you linked, and I've heard it before: > the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), is the most important free-trade agreement in years How does "29 chapters of dense rules and hundreds of tariff lines " == "free trade"? Free trade is meant to be open, without restriction, and free. Some of the conditions being reported are anything but.

If you want to understand why the TPP is the way it is, look at the Japanese domestic auto market. Their tariff on imported cars is zero, but somehow foreign cars almost never make it to market. Maybe they fail a safety inspection at the port. Maybe there are local registration fees that mysteriously appear and driven up the cost. Maybe the Japanese-run local affiliate is really really slow to move inventory into the…

Thanks for that, you make a lot of sense. I'm really interested in seeing commentary on the actual content of the TPP once it's released.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#64

Post by idonthaveaname »

martincmartin wrote: post #11
jsmeaton wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by this statement in the article you linked, and I've heard it before: > the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), is the most important free-trade agreement in years How does "29 chapters of dense rules and hundreds of tariff lines " == "free trade"? Free trade is meant to be open, without restriction, and free. Some of the conditions being reported are anything but.

It's lowering barriers to trade, making it easier for goods made in one country to be sold in another. One way it does that is by harmonizing regulations, so you don't need to make different versions for different countries, or pay for lawyers to explain compliance laws separately for each country.

Only part of that results in lower barriers to trade. Mostly that reads like "follow these rules, update your processes and factories to these other specifications" - significant barriers themselves, just upstream from the actual trade.

More significant is that there is little transparency and a, seemingly, active avoidance of public discourse about the rule-setting. The rule-setting is where the power lies, and that's what most of the objection is about.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#65

Post by wfo »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #48
wfo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's pertinent. It tells the whole story. The TPP is being negotiated exclusively by the hyper-wealthy private capitalist elite who have no connection or concern for the well-being of the vast majority of citizens. These people live in a different world than most of the readers of any newspaper or magazine. The accommodations hammer this fact home. To not mention this would whitewash the story in favor of t…

> The TPP is being negotiated exclusively by the hyper-wealthy private capitalist elite... False. It's being negotiated by government bureaucrats. They may be doing it on behalf of "the hyper-wealthy private capitalist elite", but it's not the same people. And of course, government bureaucrats like to stay in a luxury hotel on the government's dime.

The USTR is essentially an official corporate proxy and having government officials act as a go-between, asking corporate representatives what they want and then trying to get it for them is an insignificant technicality -- if a crime is contracted out, you don't spend time making a real distinction between the criminal who actually carries it out and the criminal who commissions and pays for it -- the distinction technically exists but really it's meaningless and discussing it actually distracts from the facts of the case.

They're in the luxury hotel so the round-trip time between the negotiating table and the corporate representative's hotel room is minimized -- they can all be in the same hotel. Government employees don't live in the lap of luxury by any means regularly they are generally poorly paid (that's why they swap between corporate rep and regulator, the regulator role doesn't pay well), it's the proximity to corporate wealth/corruption that's incidentally getting them nice accommodations.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#66

Post by snowwrestler »

jsmeaton wrote: post #62
snowwrestler wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to understand why the TPP is the way it is, look at the Japanese domestic auto market. Their tariff on imported cars is zero, but somehow foreign cars almost never make it to market. Maybe they fail a safety inspection at the port. Maybe there are local registration fees that mysteriously appear and driven up the cost. Maybe the Japanese-run local affiliate is really really slow to move inventory into the…

Thanks for that, you make a lot of sense. I'm really interested in seeing commentary on the actual content of the TPP once it's released.

Me too. In theory a lot of it sounds reasonable to me, but a lot of things sound good "in theory." :-)
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