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Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

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Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#41
post #33

Can somebody ELI5 the whole TPP thing? As an European should I be concerned? Does it matter only to countries involved?

As a European the one you should be concerned with is TTIP.

It is basically TTP, but involves Europe instead of East Asia and Australia.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#42
post #33

Can somebody ELI5 the whole TPP thing? As an European should I be concerned? Does it matter only to countries involved?

The TPP is a wholesome beneficial legislation, orchestrated by businesses around the world to ensure their continued profits and ownership of capital creation, such as copyright (it will be harder to share content online without paying for it and DMCA youtube takedown style action will increase.) Furthermore it allows corporations to legally prosecute governments for getting in the way of their hard-earned profits or…

I hope this is sarcasm because otherwise it is ridiculously short-sighted and naive.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#43

For a harbinger of what's to come, look into what's happening in Romania with their Rosia Montana gold mine. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-11/paulson-ba... http://www.miningfacts.org/Blog/Mining-News/Canadian-Miner-P... Basically a Canadian company will most likely sue the Romanian government for refusing to allow an open pit gold mine. They won't do this in a Romanian court. Just like we saw with Gr…

Welcome to the new corporate imperialism I guess. Was a matter of time. But really what is this about? It's about economic growth at all costs, while tooting the horn of environmentalism.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#44
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TPP is a wholesome beneficial legislation, orchestrated by businesses around the world to ensure their continued profits and ownership of capital creation, such as copyright (it will be harder to share content online without paying for it and DMCA youtube takedown style action will increase.) Furthermore it allows corporations to legally prosecute governments for getting in the way of their hard-earned profits or…

I hope this is sarcasm because otherwise it is ridiculously short-sighted and naive.

/s

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#45
I don't think current system (with fast track) is conductive for any partial fixing. TPP should be scraped completely and USTR should taste their own medicine. They don't want open negotiations and democratic oversight? They shouldn't get any agreement altogether.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#46
post #36
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but even if it's not all TPP related - that is a truckload of money. I have no idea what you even spend that amount of money on - it would buy a lot of champagne and hookers for representatives.

Not only is it not all TPP related, it is mostly not TPP related. They cited the aggregate lobbying of all the (gigantic) members of a trade coalition, and that statistic is misleading. The "champagne and hookers" snark is silly. Where do hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbying fees go? Approximately the same place as the hundreds of millions of dollars of donations to giant institutional charities go: * Salaries…

Of course it goes to hookers and blow

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174689/Lord-Snorty-...

How ignorant of human nature can someone be?

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free Trade" is like "Frictionless Wheel". It's trivially easy to talk about and is simple in theory, but in practice they both involve a lot of messy engineering. For example, free trade in mayonnaise. That should just mean that anyone can import/export mayonnaise right? Well, no. Mayonnaise is food so there's certain health standards and facility inspection regimes. And you and I have different ones now they need t…

> And you and I have different ones now they need to be harmonized. Hum... No. Not at all. A company is perfectly capable of making mayo for different health requirements. There are a few cases where harmonization is needed (mostly between small and poor countries), but overall "harmonizing" laws is just a propaganda presentation of giving exorbitant benefits for an external company that is bribing your government.

It is also about allowing a small player into the market. If there is no harmonization then then only producers who can afford to play the game are ones that can dedicate the resources to producing a hundred different types of mayo to meet various different local production requirements. Alternatively, this lack of harmonization simply allows the largest market to dictate the terms of the market for all other countries: consider situations where US states have different requirements for certain products and how this lets some states dictate terms to others, at times this leads to stricter emission standards when CA writes the rules ("yay" says the left) and at other times it leads to school textbooks declaring the US a judeo-christian nation and undermining the separation of church and state because TX writes the rules ("boo" says the left.)

As always, it is not as simple as it initially appears.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#48
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the fact that the talks are in a "Luxury Hotel" pertinent? The article doesn't explain how. Would the EFF be happier if the the "Secret TPP Talks Continue at a Reasonably Priced Motel as the Deal Grows More Controversial" Clearly the EFF doesn't like the process; but this phrasing is a cheap shot that distracts from the very important message. It's also one they've used a few times. https://www.eff.org/search/site…

Of course it's pertinent. It tells the whole story. The TPP is being negotiated exclusively by the hyper-wealthy private capitalist elite who have no connection or concern for the well-being of the vast majority of citizens. These people live in a different world than most of the readers of any newspaper or magazine. The accommodations hammer this fact home. To not mention this would whitewash the story in favor of t…

> The TPP is being negotiated exclusively by the hyper-wealthy private capitalist elite...

False. It's being negotiated by government bureaucrats. They may be doing it on behalf of "the hyper-wealthy private capitalist elite", but it's not the same people.

And of course, government bureaucrats like to stay in a luxury hotel on the government's dime.

Re: Secret TPP Talks Continue as the Deal Grows More Controversial

#50
post #32

Planet money had a fascinating podcast on how trade deals are made with the example of NAFTA. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/06/26/417851577/episo...

I came here to link it as well. It really explained to me why these negotiations are secret, something that seemed a little sinister to me at first glance.
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