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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

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Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#361

Post by pbreit »

blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

I'd agree that Switzerland would probably be considered an outlier and difficult to reproduce. However, Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Finland, Austria? I would put Germany in there, too.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#362

Post by alkonaut »

amag wrote: post #351
chimeracoder wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The oil doesnt' really make that much difference in Norway. They tend to keep most of the money in a state reserve to not create too much inflation. It absolutely does make a difference to have the world's largest sovereign wealth fund[0], as well as the economic status that allows you to leave it untouched. Simply having guaranteed future access to that kind of wealth changes your political and economic options to…

> On top of that, they face incredible racism and xenophobia. Going slightly OT here but I'm pretty sure that racism/xenophobia against muslims in Sweden is no worse than elsewhere. I'm not saying things are peachy, but incredible seems like an overstatement in this case.

I don't think so either. Sure we have problems, but we did also accept a much larger stream of refugees than most other countries. Friction isn't unexpected. A lot of xenophobia is between different migrant groups.

If anything, I'm surprised how tolerant this society is.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#363

Post by enraged_camel »

Amezarak wrote: post #167
hans0l074 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since 2001 I've lived and worked in Finland, Denmark & Sweden. Achieving a healthy & meaningful work-life balance is emphasized in the Nordic countries (I do not know about Luxembourg) The authors experience in Switzerland strikes a familiar chord with me. I have close friends in the Valley who envy me because I get 6 weeks a year off. I don't think this article is necessarily about high salaries and the luxuries you…

> I have come to believe that there is a better work-life balance in certain northern european countries than anywhere in the U.S.A It really depends. I know several companies offering 6 weeks of paid leave, plus holidays, in my area. On the other hand, that's certainly not the norm. There are many people working jobs which provide no paid holidays or vacation. At my previous job it was expected that you'd work overt…

>>It really depends. >>I know several companies offering 6 weeks of paid leave, plus holidays, in my area. >>On the other hand, that's certainly not the norm. There are many people working jobs which provide no paid holidays or vacation.

Yeah, so on average, the parent's point is correct: on average, the standard of living and work-life balance in the US are abysmal compared to those in most Northern European nations.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#364

Post by rch »

ido wrote: post #286
jqm wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do it. Do what makes you happy. If you aren't happy working or you don't get enough time off... change the situation. But don't spend a bunch of your life unsatisfied.

I am actually a freelancer, my example was not of my current situation. But while I was employed it was very hard (I didn't manage to get it despite trying for a while) to get a job as a developer for less than full time regardless of salary. Anyway that wasn't the point, my point was that stating your particular preference doesn't really add much to the conversation.

Don't give up - I heard of one in Boulder last year, and looking at their site, I see it's still listed.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#365

Post by enraged_camel »

jqm wrote: post #295
enraged_camel wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of Americans simply do not have that choice. They can't go to their boss and say, "hey boss, I want to take a 10% pay cut and get an extra 2 weeks off." American work culture simply doesn't allow that.

Any smart boss with decision making power should instantly give workers an additional 2 weeks off for a 10% pay cut. (Assuming the workers work more than 20 weeks a year and their duties can be taken up by someone else). It's pure profit at that point. That aside... there is always a choice. Don't ever think otherwise. You don't have to stay there. You don't have to drive a nice car. Always a choice. It's just a matt…

Again, easy for you to say when you're in your early 20s, single, no kids and few friends.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#366

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ap22213 wrote: post #223

I grew up very poor in the U.S. Poor as in, my single mom earned $6000 / year with little federal benefits to raise four kids. But, now, I'm in my late 30s and very successful. So, in that regard, I love the U.S. For the upper middle class and wealthy, the U.S. is like an adult playground. And, I don't mind the long hours of work; I still get plenty of work-life balance. But, honestly, the only way that this occurs (…

This is what I liked about my upbringing; my parents weren't rich either, but at the same time my quality of life was decent. Thanks to government funding, I was able to get a decent education (bachelor's degree, I could go for a master's but I couldn't be arsed) and as a result a very good job (I've got the best job of anyone I know besides my colleagues). Upward mobility is very good here, unlike in the US where as far as I know you either need to have your parents save up half a house worth of college funding, or some magic college fund that only kids in movies get by playing in bands or being good at sports, or however that thing works. It's an equal opportunities system.

Which unfortunately has been cut / downsized thanks to the economic crisis and probably capitalist goals, so the generation after me has less opportunities and can't, for example, do a master's after they do a bachelor's without working alongside it or taking out a big loan.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#367

Post by hga »

comrade1 wrote: post #314
refurb wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incomes taxes or all taxes?

Income taxes. As for sales tax, it's 7% here. Lower than most of Europe, and lower than some parts of the u.s., but not all parts of the u.s. But the low taxes more than make up for it. (about 1/2 compared to the u.s., but depends on your income level)

There's also a Value Added Tax (VAT), which probably makes comparing the Swiss and US systems difficult: https://www.ch.ch/en/vat-rates-switzerland/

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#368

Post by mmaunder »

Veratyr wrote: post #197
mmaunder wrote: post #100

How about no commute because you're working remotely from anywhere in the world, awesome pay, the best health care coverage, dental,options (even with a great base pay package), 401k, relaxed work culture and a company that goes out of it's way to spoil the team. Our company and team are all US based. Sounds like the author picked a nasty US company for her article.

And you're picking an unusually great company. I think her point is more that the benefits she's talking about are average for the Swiss, they're to be expected wherever you work by default and they're not just for tech industry workers. In the US, they're something so unusual that you feel lucky for having them, even if you work in the tech industry.

And my point is that hers is very one-sided and there's some serious selection bias going on. Living in Switzerland can actually suck. It's expensive - about 2+ times the rest of Europe and there is some serious xenophobia. Benefits in the US are not unusual and are pretty darn good by world standards. But hey, everyone loves a grass-is-greener post.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#369

Post by mmaunder »

blfr wrote: post #41

"Driving Bentleys ruined me for BMWs and their poor make quality" Switzerland is one of... three maybe (Luxemburg, Norway) countries with higher standard of living than the US. Not even Switzerland's neighbours (Italy, France, Germany) with people coming from the same populations can reproduce it. All these great states are tiny (8M people) outliers. There are more people enjoying work-life balance in America than al…

Good point. That along with high prices (2 to 3 times rest of Europe) and xenophobia can make Switzerland a fairly miserable place for an immigrant.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#370

Post by hansjorg »

cjsthompson wrote: post #203
hectormalot wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, you might find the bill boards from the SVP, that shows minarets (the tall part of a mosque) depicted as rockets, or the one where they show white sheep kicking a black sheep out of Switzerland. I think it is a good example of how 'direct' Switzerland can be if you are a foreigner there. (I still love the country though)

Well I agree that patriarcal culture (of which veils and minarets are symbols) has nothing to do in central/northern europe. I don't care about freedom of religion, I care about being freed from religion. And it sounds like the swiss do too. So if that was suposed to make me think that democracy as opposed to parliamentary regimes is a bad thing, think again.

> that patriarcal culture

Funny. Do you know anything at all about Switzerland? (hint: it's a very patriarchal society)

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