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High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

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Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#61

Post by DanBC »

briandear wrote: post #38
rmason wrote: post #4

It's called researchers bias where someone so fervently believes something is true that it influences their research. NINA is a good example of an uncomfortable truth.

Same could be said for human caused global warming..

Yes. Even though the overwhelming majority of scientists agree that climate change is real and probably has human causes you do still find people in the pay of large fossil fuel companies who will deny the reality, and then a number of otherwise smart people who believe the shills.

It's a fascinating (also frustrating) phenomenom.

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#62

Post by Lorento »

njloof wrote: post #60
Lorento wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean not allowing foreigners to work, even when they live in the country. Ironically, the public's distrust of the Irish and other foreigners has led to the law disallowing them at the border rather than individual employers at the job application. We don't allow Irish to freely enter the US and work today.

Ah yes. And even if there's a "points system" for highly qualified candidates, is there equality of opportunity?

Yea points sound nice in a way but I like to just replace the specified nationality with "black" and see if it still sounds OK. "There's a points system to allow the most successful blacks to work among regular citizens."

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#63

Post by Houshalter »

Lorento wrote: post #57
njloof wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is a veiled reference to affirmative action, at least show the courage to say what you really mean.

I mean not allowing foreigners to work, even when they live in the country. Ironically, the public's distrust of the Irish and other foreigners has led to the law disallowing them at the border rather than individual employers at the job application. We don't allow Irish to freely enter the US and work today.

Right but that's not because they hate immigrants or think they are inferior or whatever. It's because they don't want them to compete for jobs with Americans. It's an attempt at protectionism of labor and preventing a race to the bottom. Your accusations that it's racist or discrimination is just not correct.

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#64

Post by Lorento »

Houshalter wrote: post #63
Lorento wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean not allowing foreigners to work, even when they live in the country. Ironically, the public's distrust of the Irish and other foreigners has led to the law disallowing them at the border rather than individual employers at the job application. We don't allow Irish to freely enter the US and work today.

Right but that's not because they hate immigrants or think they are inferior or whatever. It's because they don't want them to compete for jobs with Americans. It's an attempt at protectionism of labor and preventing a race to the bottom. Your accusations that it's racist or discrimination is just not correct.

Not entirely racism, but still discrimination.

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#65

Post by dspeyer »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #20

Jensen: "No other ethnic group complained about being singled out by comparable signs." How on Earth did anyone take this man seriously? Is he a visitor from an alternate universe where segregation never happened?

It is weird that this exact phrase kept getting used against the Irish and not other discriminated-against groups. Nothing for Poles, Slavs, Italians, Russians... Or at least that's what I'm finding on the LoC search. A few "No Jews Need Apply", but only a few, and those aren't job listings.

Probably not a particularly important mystery, but weird.

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#67

Post by kjs3 »

I've met a certain subculture of racists who like to point to articles like this and say things like "well since there were never NINA signs, discrimination against blacks couldn't have been as bad as it was". Reading Jensen you can see how he's a kindred spirit of such people. It's apparent he started out with "I think the Irish were lazy, violent and anti-American who need victim-hood to maintain their identity" and set to work to prove it.

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#68

Post by zumtar »

talideon wrote: post #59
zumtar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course they did. They were Irish, but the unionists agreed (along with Great Britain) that Ireland should be ruled by the King and be under British rule, and subsequently they all adopt the "British" sect of Christianity (Anglicanism).

No, and the situation was and still is a lot more complicated than that. The relationship between Unionism and Protestantism and Nationalism and Catholicism was and still is much more grey than many realise. The current situation with Northern Ireland makes this appear much more dry-cut than it actually is because NI was set up on sectarian grounds. However, historically many, in fact the majority, of the prime mover…

> No, and the situation was and still is a lot more complicated than that.

The question was "Did they [Irish Protestants] really consider themselves "Irish", though?" and the answer is "yes".

> Moreover, the vast majority of Irish Protestants have been Presbyterian, not Anglican.

The Church of Ireland is (and has been in recent history) the second largest Christian "sect" (as I put it earlier) in Ireland after Roman Catholicism. The Church of Ireland follows Anglicanism.

Of course are many many complications to the entire subject but that wasn't the original question, I was referring to the national identification of the Protestant islanders during the time frame of Jensen's claims.

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#69

Post by geofft »

Lorento wrote: post #57
njloof wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is a veiled reference to affirmative action, at least show the courage to say what you really mean.

I mean not allowing foreigners to work, even when they live in the country. Ironically, the public's distrust of the Irish and other foreigners has led to the law disallowing them at the border rather than individual employers at the job application. We don't allow Irish to freely enter the US and work today.

Yeah, but that's about non-Americans. It's already legal for US Border Patrol agents to shoot from American soil across the Mexican border and kill Mexicans, because there's no (US-)Constitutional right to life for non-Americans.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/04/24/us/ap-us-border-p...

Re: High School Student Proves “No Irish Need Apply” Signs Existed

#70

Post by azernik »

zumtar wrote: post #68
talideon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and the situation was and still is a lot more complicated than that. The relationship between Unionism and Protestantism and Nationalism and Catholicism was and still is much more grey than many realise. The current situation with Northern Ireland makes this appear much more dry-cut than it actually is because NI was set up on sectarian grounds. However, historically many, in fact the majority, of the prime mover…

> No, and the situation was and still is a lot more complicated than that. The question was "Did they [Irish Protestants] really consider themselves "Irish", though?" and the answer is "yes". > Moreover, the vast majority of Irish Protestants have been Presbyterian, not Anglican. The Church of Ireland is (and has been in recent history) the second largest Christian "sect" (as I put it earlier) in Ireland after Roman…

In the United States, they tended to identify as "Scots-Irish", and had a much more established place in American society (for example, at least three Presidents that I know of were Scots-Irish in the 19th century).
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