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I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

jonathan.porta.codes

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Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#461

Post by enraged_camel »

npizzolato wrote: post #357
thaumaturgy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." I have adopted a passive stance on privacy and security: I stay up-to-date on news in this area, I choose for myself products and systems that minimally increase my risk, and I will answer questions from clients or other people. But, I won't evangelize it. Most people really just…

> Hell, look at this very thread on HN. There are people further upthread essentially saying, "Whatever, I like it because it's convenient." Is that so ridiculous a concept? People routinely trade privacy for convenience. Sending my location to Google through their maps is ridiculously convenient. Getting around using public transportation, especially in a city I'm unfamiliar with, would be a pretty awful experience…

>>Is that so ridiculous a concept? People routinely trade privacy for convenience. Sending my location to Google through their maps is ridiculously convenient.

If you cannot tell the difference between you sending your location to Google when you need to and half the people in the world sending ALL their information to Microsoft ALL the time BY DEFAULT, I don't know what to tell you.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#462

Post by lewisl9029 »

nhf wrote: post #432
lewisl9029 wrote: post #136

This was also recently brought to my attention: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9973629 Windows 10 RTM has peer to peer updates over the internet as the default. I could swear it defaulted to local-only in the preview, so I didn't even check it until now after doing a clean install of RTM.

P2P by default except on the enterprise edition, in which case it's local network only. They also claim to disable P2P if they detect your internet connection is metered (I'm not sure how that's done).

That makes sense. I was using enterprise edition in the insider program, but clean installed the professional edition RTM.

This is still a really bad default for the majority of users though...

Metered connections are a per-network setting that you have to set manually, not something they detect automatically. I highly doubt most users will be able to discover this feature since it's buried rather deeply in network settings.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#465

Post by wila »

dimino wrote: post #234
jblow wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether they don't right this second doesn't matter. Their terms of service say they can . If they decided it was unthinkable that they would ever do this, they could have written their TOS to be less overreaching. But they didn't do that. Therefore they think it's a possibility (if in fact they are not already doing it. Are you so sure? How do you know?)

They also didn't specifically preclude the possibility of commandeering my computer by pushing an update that'll force me to mine bitcoin for them, but I can be pretty damn sure that's not going to happen. But let me rephrase anyway: I'll bet everything in my pocket that Windows 10 does not, nor will they ever , keylog every stroke and send it back to Microsoft servers for storage. I can be sure of this the same way…

> I'll bet everything in my pocket

and as we don't know what is in your pocket, the bet is off. :)

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#466

Post by johnchristopher »

freehunter wrote: post #193
Animats wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant." Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? This is not going to fly with business customers. Microsoft has already bombed twice in the business space, with Windows Vista and Windows 8. This looks like another bomb. Windows 7 is still pretty good, and it will probably be the main Microso…

>Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? I did. Linux and OSX are still available for whoever wants them. You can stick with Windows 7 if you want, that's just fine. I like Cortana. I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. I can see why some people might not, and to be fair I use Linux on my work laptop because the…

> I can see why some people might not, and to be fair I use Linux on my work laptop because the work I do demands it. I would never put my client data on a Windows machine.

How do you handle business e-mail ? Only on the linux laptop ? Is the windows device only for personal and entertainment purposes ?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#467

Post by johnchristopher »

freehunter wrote: post #193
Animats wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant." Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? This is not going to fly with business customers. Microsoft has already bombed twice in the business space, with Windows Vista and Windows 8. This looks like another bomb. Windows 7 is still pretty good, and it will probably be the main Microso…

>Who wanted that for desktop computers or laptops? I did. Linux and OSX are still available for whoever wants them. You can stick with Windows 7 if you want, that's just fine. I like Cortana. I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. I can see why some people might not, and to be fair I use Linux on my work laptop because the…

> But like I can see your side of the argument, you have to be able to see that some other people want personalization and learning and all that. Pandora and Apple Music are both heavily tailored that way. Google Now on your phone knows everything you do. Netflix can find videos for you to watch based on what you've watched before. Amazon will recommend purchases to you based on what you like. Hell, half the people on this site build these systems. You know how many machine learning articles there are on the front page every week?

But that's the thing, right ? People want their computers to be more intelligent, reactive, adapted to their needs. They don't want Google, MS or Apple to know everything about them. How did the first came to automatically imply the second ?

Apple, Google, MS and others could deliver the same products (software that learn user behaviour and adapt accordingly) without sacrificing privacy, invading personal space and storing private documents on the cloud in order to parse it to deliver relevant ads.

Machine learning should keep on trying to be machine learning and not solely data scraping for marketing tuning and exploitation.

What does it bring me that MS or Google knows my search terms of the day ? I want my quad-core CPU to know that when I browse HN it should automatically split the screen in half and open my media player to listen to radio music because that's what I do most morning. Why do I have to do that by hand ? Can't it know or guess my routine by now ?

Or is all the tech just a glorified lexical parser to fine tune ads to increase their efficiency ?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#468

Post by [deleted] »

pdkl95 wrote: post #309
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an even bigger elephant in the room: software is a non-scarce, non-rivalrous (possibly even anti-rivalrous in that utility increases with usage) good. Per-unit software sales and most standard proprietary software business models are deadweight losses that rely on unsustainably preserving artificial scarcity. The technical community has mostly accepted that file sharing is a reality that requires rethinking b…

Programming is a trade , similar to plumbing. Just like the typical plumber or electrician, most programming is not "new products". Even today, most programming is probably Java (formerly Cobol) internal to a business or other large organization. There will always be a need for programmers, for much the same reason we will always need plumbers: even with standardized parts and methods, you still need someone to actua…

[deleted]

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#469

Post by yrro »

KeytarHero wrote: post #186
codeshaman wrote: post #150

I've never understood how people can truly believe that by checking (or unchecking) a checkbox their privacy will be fully protected. Especially since we're talking about a closed-source OS. I mean I cannot possibly verify what exactly goes on in the annals of the operating system and what happens to my data, where it is logged and where it is stored and how it is sent. So regardless of the settings, I always assume…

> I've never understood how people can truly believe that by checking (or unchecking) a checkbox their privacy is fully protected. You mean besides the fact that collecting personal data without your consent is illegal?

When the President does it, it is not illegal.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#470

Post by BasDirks »

MaulingMonkey wrote: post #410
userbinator wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like my software knowing what I like and what I'm interested in. It makes my life easier, which is what computers were invented for. Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you? There is no doubt it will make things easier for you if all you do is effectiv…

> Philosophical question: is it really your life, if your software may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if it hadn't been making the suggestions to influence you? No less so than if your friends, family, coworkers, and society at large may be subtly persuading you in a different direction than what you would've taken if they hadn't been making the suggestions to influence…

"No less so than if your friends, family, coworkers.."

There is a difference between those and MS.

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