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Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

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Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#161

Post by Silhouette »

girvo wrote: post #144
Silhouette wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, Australis for example was a large redesign of the UI. I'm not sure how you can support an opt-out, as that would mean supporting two codebases - two different and separate UIs, at once. Isn't it frustrating when a major software vendor takes a product you rely on, updates the whole UI in a way that makes the product worse for you and many other people using the desktop version primarily in order to try to ma…

> you'll also miss out on critical bug fixes and security updates for the old one within a few months? I'm not disagreeing with your point, but can't you use the Firefox LTS releases for that exact reason?

Sadly, I have discovered that Mozilla and I have very different ideas of what "long term" means.

The irony of my previous post is that both Microsoft and Mozilla seem to be playing the same game now, right down to sub-year "long term" support. You can't really choose whether to have those updates any more, only to defer them for a short while. Anything more than that, and you just have to give up on updating altogether, security updates included, and for a new OS that is even more dangerous than it is for a browser.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#162

Post by Lazare »

pcwalton wrote: post #155
Lazare wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mozilla is rather clear that they don't want to spec on a specific version of SQLite Not entirely true either. From the link: > Hixie has said before he’s willing to fully spec the SQL dialect used by [WebSQL]. But since Mozilla categorically refuses to implement the spec (apparently regardless of whether the SQL dialect is specified), he doesn’t want to put in the work since it would be a comparatively poor use of…

You didn't quote Jonas' or roc's responses to that specific claim.

I didn't feel the need; it just brings the discussion back to my earlier comment upthread.

If you don't want to just use Sqlite (understandable), and you don't want to write something that is as good as Sqlite (also understandable), then you're going to have a crap database implementation. There's just not a lot of other options there. Jonas' comment just reiterates the lack of choices.

But given the three bad choices, the question does arise: Was IndexedDB really the best of a bad lot? In 2009, a lot of very optimistic things were said about IndexedDB performance, adoption, usage on mobile, developer acceptance. It's been 6 years, and I think it's safe to say that IndexedDB hasn't lived up to anyone's hopes.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#164

Post by shmed »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #124
ikeboy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then what's wrong when an OS does it?

The OS does set itself to do OS things. OS shouldn't set your browser.

It's one of the option during the first experience configuration of Windows 10. If you had another browser installed, one of the toggle is : do you want to use Edge as default browser. Hopefully, people that feel that strongly about their browser choice don't just use "Express settings" when installing a whole operating system.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#165

Post by gfosco »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #149
byuu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the most "pot calling the kettle black" article I've seen all month. Let's see: * no opt-out for Australis * removal of tabs on bottom * forced signed extensions * removing option to not retain download history (unless you give up browsing history too) * bundling of Hello * bundling of Pocket (requires a lot of effort to disable) * bundling of DRM web extensions * bundling ads out of the box (can be dis…

I'm not going to defend Mozilla's hypocrisy. Microsoft is in a different league with Windows 10, however. This was what they dreamed of 15 years ago. Once you install Windows 10, it's no longer your PC, it is Microsoft's. You can't choose to avoid an update. Think about that. This means Microsoft can do anything it wants to with your computer: * change your settings * farm your compute cycles * put in advertising * i…

No, they can't legally do any of the negative things you've listed, and they aren't an organization with a history of criminal action against customers. This brings the OS in line with the behavior of many applications (Chrome for example) in keeping things always up-to-date & secured, and it's done because most users are incredibly lazy and ignorant.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#166

Post by LamaOfRuin »

brighteyes wrote: post #95
lawl wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad how true this is. I still fondly remeber the days of Firefox 2.5. IMO the best browser ever. It feels like Mozilla is trying to shove more shit down my throat with every update. I'm by no means trying to defend Microsoft here. I installed Win10 yesterday, and they replaced my FF default with Microsoft Edge (which is arguably better than IE, but still not something I'd use voluntarily). Why can't Mozilla ship…

Mozilla did agree, following the criticism on Pocket, that shipping new things like Pocket should be done as addons, and would do the work to fix that.

Citation needed.

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#167

Post by fpgeek »

tn13 wrote: post #127
brighteyes wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your sarcasm is entertaining, but the big difference is that while neither company/product is perfect, Microsoft still essentially owns the desktop with Windows. While Mozilla's Firefox is just one among several choices of web browser, currently #3 in the rankings. It is extremely easy to switch web browser. It is not easy to switch OS. On a Windows machine, if you are savvy enough, you can install Linux, but otherwi…

Mozilla is becoming irrelevant in modern market and their response seems to be to blame others. I had guessed it when they fired their CEO over some ridiculous issue. Windows is bigger does not mean they have any obligation to give space to others. Does Apple let you install YouPorn App on your iphone ? Does Google let you replace default search with Bing if you want ? Both Android and iOS are immensely successful an…

> Does Google let you replace default search with Bing if you want ?

Why yes, they do. If you want, you can even replace Google Now with Firefox search (using Yahoo by default, unless you change it).

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#168

Post by cottsak »

gfosco wrote: post #165
slowmovintarget wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to defend Mozilla's hypocrisy. Microsoft is in a different league with Windows 10, however. This was what they dreamed of 15 years ago. Once you install Windows 10, it's no longer your PC, it is Microsoft's. You can't choose to avoid an update. Think about that. This means Microsoft can do anything it wants to with your computer: * change your settings * farm your compute cycles * put in advertising * i…

No, they can't legally do any of the negative things you've listed, and they aren't an organization with a history of criminal action against customers. This brings the OS in line with the behavior of many applications (Chrome for example) in keeping things always up-to-date & secured, and it's done because most users are incredibly lazy and ignorant.

While your point may be valid. Some of the things slowmovintarget mentions are still a problem for you: https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-persona...

Re: Open Letter to Microsoft’s CEO: Don’t Roll Back the Clock on Choice and Control

#169

Post by cottsak »

Lazare wrote: post #73

Meh. Is this an ideal thing for MS to have done? Fuck, I dunno. Probably not, I guess? But this isn't that bad; the hyperbolic title ("don't roll back the clock on choice!") makes this sound like something actually serious. Or major. Or permanent. It would be the right headline to protest MS making it impossible to use a third party browser, or at least impossible to change the default browser. Instead it's being use…

Right. So if you want to be worried about something --serious-- be worried about this https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-persona...
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