I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#141

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #121

MichaelGG wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there should definitely be a "Hey Cortana, off the record,..." query mode. I'm a bit conflicted now. My girls are 7 & 9 and they've been using Microsoft Accounts. With the final Win10 build having all this (none of these settings worked a few months ago), it looks like I've got a lot of reading and explaining to do for them.

For the US market, the way you frame the concern is the legal reality for Microsoft...parents who will blame Microsoft when information about their children passes online...are why there are no privacy guarantees in Microsoft's new policy. It's just too easy for a lawyer to convince a trier of fact that Microsoft "should have known".

Doesn't the US impose privacy guarantees on those storing data about the under-13s anyway?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#142

Post by zodPod » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

iambitjelly wrote: post #51

I dont' know why so many people are surprised by the Cortana data vacuum. Doesn't Siri send everything you say to it to Apple or a "trusted partner"? Why would Cortana be any different? The keylogger and Start menu ads are just creepy though. I shouldn't have to opt-out of targeted ads INSIDE MY OS.

Agreed. Doesn't everyone wonder why everyone wants to have their own offering that you can speak to?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#143

Post by 27182818284 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

jameshart wrote: post #131

iambitjelly wrote: post #51

I dont' know why so many people are surprised by the Cortana data vacuum. Doesn't Siri send everything you say to it to Apple or a "trusted partner"? Why would Cortana be any different? The keylogger and Start menu ads are just creepy though. I shouldn't have to opt-out of targeted ads INSIDE MY OS.

You've had targeted ads on your XBox homescreen for a long time; a core OS feature of the iPhone is the app store, which features targeted ads. When app discovery becomes a part of the OS, advertising seems to naturally follow.

there is large difference between ads in your face and ads "once I've explicitly indicated I'm looking to shop because I clicked on the App store"

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#144

Post by edwhitesell » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

jimrandomh wrote: post #52

"Send typing and inking data to Microsoft to improve the recognition and suggestion platform" "Typing data" sounds like keylogging. If it's what it sounds like, that's really emphatically not okay; that would include all passwords and the contents of all emails sent. Would someone with actual knowledge care to chime in and say what data is actually sent? If it turns out that Windows 10 really is sending keystrokes to…

IE and other browsers configured to use Bing have done this for a while. I discovered it while packet sniffing for something else and seeing HTTP requests for the things I was typing in the Address Bar.

I can't say I'm surprised, though saddened, to see this elsewhere in the OS.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#145

Post by jwalton » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:04 PM UTC

As I noted here: http://www.thedreaming.org/201... you shuld also go to "Settings" -> "Accounts" -> "Sync your Settings" and turn off Password syncing, which is enabled by default. I would hope that passwords are encrypted with my Microsoft account password (and I would further hope that only a hash of this password is stored on Microsoft servers) but no where is any of this explained. There's a "How does sync work" link at the top of the page, but clicking on it takes you to a Bing search which explains how to turn syncing on and off.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#146

Post by mynameisvlad » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:05 PM UTC

joosters wrote: post #114

mynameisvlad wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you have to admit that desktop-based recognition is just not as good as cloud-based offerings. This is true across the board, having more data and power available will give better results.

Sure, but desktop-based recognition has been improving all the time and may well be good enough. It still doesn't mean we have to lose our privacy just because a slightly better technology might be out there.

Not nearly as fast as cloud recognition has. Especially with all three of the big companies having serious cloud-based recognition offerings and focusing on them.

And seriously, Cortana would be useless without the cloud aspect. Half the things it does revolve around connecting your digital life together by accessing various things about you. Without the cloud, it's literally just Windows 8 search.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#147

Post by debacle » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:05 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #96

debacle wrote: post #69

This is more of a rhetorical question, but why does every modern OS and browser need to try and become a computing leviathan? Why can't my hammer ever be happy just driving nails? I don't need a hammer that cooks waffles.

I'll answer your rhetorical question with another one. When was the last time you paid for an upgraded hammer?

I haven't paid for a hammer since I was in college and Hammer XP was $5. I keep buying nails that come with Hammer Home Edition and setting up servers with Hammer LTS and replacing Hammer Explorer with HammerFox. All free.

I'm not Microsoft's target client because I'm a pathological customer. Every home MS desktop user is a pathological customer. They know that.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#148

Post by smacktoward » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:05 PM UTC

noxToken wrote: post #134

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great suggestion. I'm getting sick of having to open incongito mode on Chrome unless I want Google Now to happily repeat whatever I was looking at later. Uh, I don't need reminders for sales on hemorrhoid medicine or news alerts about the side effects of MDMA. I don't need that popping up where others can see it. Some kind of "off the record" mode would be invaluable for voice interfaces. Hell, it would be…

> I'm getting sick of having to open incognito mode on Chrome unless I want Google Now to happily repeat whatever I was looking at later. Isn't that what incognito mode is for? If don't want your searches in cards at all, you completely opt-out of the cards that are strictly based on your search history. Ctrl+Shift+N seems like a small, reasonable step to go off the record. What is the alternative?

Why are you complaining about having to wear a bag over your head whenever you go out to pick up your prescriptions or meet your mistress, citizen? It's a small, reasonable step to go off the record. What is the alternative?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#149

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:06 PM UTC

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #3

Of course you did. Large companies have no vested interest in building systems that do the "right thing" for you as defined by tech types like us who are arguably more sensitive on this subject than most people. They are building services that take your information and try to do something interesting enough with it to make it worthwhile...and why is it on by default? Because they want to make money off of the new fea…

I suspect people are downvoting your cynicism.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#150

Post by codeshaman » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 7:07 PM UTC

I've never understood how people can truly believe that by checking (or unchecking) a checkbox their privacy will be fully protected. Especially since we're talking about a closed-source OS.

I mean I cannot possibly verify what exactly goes on in the annals of the operating system and what happens to my data, where it is logged and where it is stored and how it is sent.

So regardless of the settings, I always assume that my data is logged and read by some creepy agent in the Ministry of Truth.

If it's not, then I'm just lucky.

Having grown up in a totalitarian state, that's the default way I think about this stuff and no amount of promises (except the source code which I can personally compile) can make me trust any 3rd party corporation.