I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#91

Post by mynameisvlad » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:22 PM UTC

joosters wrote: post #85

ewzimm wrote: post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

It's possible to do all this personalization without giving away your data to advertisers. Unfortunately Microsoft chose not to. Why do people seem to gloss over the fact that we can implement these technologies without losing privacy? e.g. voice recognition has been possible on home computers for decades now. You don't need the cloud for it.

I mean, you have to admit that desktop-based recognition is just not as good as cloud-based offerings. This is true across the board, having more data and power available will give better results.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#92

Post by iambitjelly » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:22 PM UTC

chadzawistowski wrote: post #61

iambitjelly wrote: post #51

I dont' know why so many people are surprised by the Cortana data vacuum. Doesn't Siri send everything you say to it to Apple or a "trusted partner"? Why would Cortana be any different? The keylogger and Start menu ads are just creepy though. I shouldn't have to opt-out of targeted ads INSIDE MY OS.

What do start menu ads look like?

This: https://twitter.com/GazTheJourno/status/626736454610366465

According to these screen shots, this guy got skincare product ads in his start menu.

I can't verify because I noped out of anything that smelled like ads right from the get-go. Also, classic shell.

!!!EDIT: I know it looks shopped, which is why I said I couldn't verify it. Windows Store app ads are quite real though.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#93

Post by sudioStudio64 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:22 PM UTC

the8472 wrote: post #82

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that you are mistaken. Could they turn over your BitLocker recovery key to the authorities that would then use it to decrypt your HDD that they have already taken from you? Yes. Are they going to reach out over the internet and take your data? No. They are not going to do that. I follow this stuff really closely. I promise I haven't seen or heard of a capability where they can remotely take data from your m…

The point is that they're granting themselves the permission to do so if anyone ever deemed it necessary and that the user has to agree to their terms to use windows. So you're basically signing away your rights to privacy. Not based on due process but on "good faith belief". Someone at microsoft thought there is a need to do that to cover their legal asses. They would only think that in case they anticipated needing…

You are completely free to not use it. I'm not trying to be a smart-a here. There have never been more options for end users.

You aren't signing away your rights to privacy without due process...that's your part to evaluate. "Is this useful enough to me that it's worth agreeing to this?"

Also, this is version dependent. The TOS for an individual consumer is different than a developer with an MSDN license, and a business with a volume agreement. Do you have different privacy requirements? Are you willing to pay for them? If they can't make money with the product that they built in the manner that they came up with then it isn't illegal, or really even remotely morally odious, for them to ask for a different payment arrangement.

Now. Do I like everything about life in a capitalist national security state? No way. But do I whine when some vendor doesn't do exactly what I want when I'm really not event scratching the surface of enough money to get their attention? Seriously, man.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#94

Post by orf » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:24 PM UTC

legomylibro wrote: post #77

iambitjelly wrote: post #51

I dont' know why so many people are surprised by the Cortana data vacuum. Doesn't Siri send everything you say to it to Apple or a "trusted partner"? Why would Cortana be any different? The keylogger and Start menu ads are just creepy though. I shouldn't have to opt-out of targeted ads INSIDE MY OS.

To be fair, Apple needs that messaging for Siri because they outsource the speech recognition to a 3rd party (Nuance, I think). It's not like your phone is doing all of that legwork locally. I'll bet it's the same deal with Google Now and Cortana.

I think Google handle their speech recognition in house, but do outsource snippets to help improve it.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#95

Post by sudioStudio64 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:25 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #72

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that you are mistaken. Could they turn over your BitLocker recovery key to the authorities that would then use it to decrypt your HDD that they have already taken from you? Yes. Are they going to reach out over the internet and take your data? No. They are not going to do that. I follow this stuff really closely. I promise I haven't seen or heard of a capability where they can remotely take data from your m…

There are two approaches: give someone a pile of power over you and trust them not to abuse it, or never give them that power in the first place. Given the repeated demonstrations of what can and does go wrong with the former...

Those aren't even remotely the only two choices here. There have never been more options for an end user of technology.

You don't have to use agree to it. It's a trade off.

If you have different requirements they are more than willing to come up with a different arrangement with you. (Yes, for a fee.)

They aren't the government. They are an overblown bubble gum factory. It's up to you if you chew or not. And there have never been so many flavors!

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#96

Post by slg » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:25 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #69

This is more of a rhetorical question, but why does every modern OS and browser need to try and become a computing leviathan? Why can't my hammer ever be happy just driving nails? I don't need a hammer that cooks waffles.

I'll answer your rhetorical question with another one. When was the last time you paid for an upgraded hammer?

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#97

Post by mynameisvlad » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:26 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #10

task_queue wrote: post #6

The idea of an operating system integrating with services like that still bothers me even though it is done in Mac OS X and Ubuntu.

I use a local account on Windows 8 (which is pretty much configured to run like Windows 7) but that completely keeps me from being able to use the Windows Store and therefore any of those universal apps. I'm sure if I choose the same option in Windows 10 a large part of the OS will be completely closed off.

You should be able to log in directly into the Store without associating that account to your local account. That should be the default in 8/8.1, I don't know if it applies in 10 but it's exactly how you can get universal apps while on a domain account.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#98

Post by ewzimm » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:27 PM UTC

bargl wrote: post #39

ewzimm wrote: post #20

Windows is now essentially a personalized, cloud-based operating system with the primary interface as a personal assistant, so I expected to see all these things as defaults. The advanced features just couldn't work without it. I'm glad there's at least an opt-out, but I do think that Windows needs an OS-wide incognito mode, just a simple switch to record or not record data. I generally use that on my browser for whe…

I've been waiting for this comment, I can see how the first set of customization options really seem like they'd help with the personal assistant. It would be interesting to get a full audit of where your data goes and what they can use it for (training your personal assistant, improving their algorithms, responding to Govt data requests, improving ads, etc). As for incognito, can you sign into windows as guest now?…

It's still possible to create a local guest account, but that means giving up a lot of settings that I might want to maintain on the regular account, and it's a hassle to have to log out and in again just because I don't want to record something. Maybe I want to plan a surprise trip for someone who also uses the computer or get information about a strange rash that might be nothing without making that part of my permanent record. Maybe I want to let someone else use software which requires an account, like edit a file on Adobe CS or fix a bug inside Visual Studio, without having everything they do become part of my profile.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#99

Post by the8472 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #93

the8472 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that they're granting themselves the permission to do so if anyone ever deemed it necessary and that the user has to agree to their terms to use windows. So you're basically signing away your rights to privacy. Not based on due process but on "good faith belief". Someone at microsoft thought there is a need to do that to cover their legal asses. They would only think that in case they anticipated needing…

You are completely free to not use it. I'm not trying to be a smart-a here. There have never been more options for end users. You aren't signing away your rights to privacy without due process...that's your part to evaluate. "Is this useful enough to me that it's worth agreeing to this?" Also, this is version dependent. The TOS for an individual consumer is different than a developer with an MSDN license, and a busin…

you're going off tangents here.

Obviously the premise of this discussion is that you install their software.

IF you install windows 10 THEN you agree to their terms of service which includes granting them access to your private files.

Re: I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10

#100

Post by sudioStudio64 » Thu, Jul 30, 2015, 6:29 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #62

sudioStudio64 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the entire point of the service was to use data mining techniques so that you could use natural language directives to say "add a reminder to my team's calendar to update some presentation in O365, etc"... Maybe you don't find it that useful, but I think that a lot of people would. It will, in a future release, be genuinely useful. It's getting there.

All of which could be done locally. There's certainly no shortage of processing power available to do so. All of those services have APIs.

That's actually how it works. You give it permission to use your O365 account. You give it permission to use your location either at setup or in the config settings at a later date.

A whole host of the Cortana functionality is local that interacts with online services via API's that you authorize.

I don't think that really anything that I say is going to change your mind, but you could check out some of the video's on Channel9 where they go into it in detail. Some of it's pretty good and if you use headphones you can't hear your co-workers talk about stuff that makes you want to slap someone.