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Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

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Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#71

Post by ris »

omonra wrote: post #68
ris wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must assume you consider it a non-issue because you didn't see a clip of, e.g., the "slope" incident, which is unmistakeably a racial reference. The shot in question makes no sense otherwise. Allowing "clever" references like this continue to signal that it's A-OK to use these terms casually. It is not a non-issue. And I suggest you would not consider it a non-issue if it were the word "nigger".

I did not see it - but I read the Wiki article about his controversies. All of them appear to be no more than play on words, there is never any ill will or desire to humiliate anybody. The reason these particular jokes get noticed is because some people are obsessed with crying foul when certain groups are offended. He could make 10 jokes about the English/Scotts/Welsh and nobody would bat an eyelash.

So a play on words with the word "nigger" would be ok by you?

"...never any ill will or desire to humiliate anybody" - this is the sort of very flimsy faux-naivity that I come to expect in these debates - especially on technical forums with a very literal-thinking crowd.

"He could make 10 jokes about the English/Scotts/Welsh and nobody would bat an eyelash."

Context. You cannot ignore context as much as you try. In the modern day, the English, Scots and Welsh are not typically discriminated against for their racial "traits". Certainly not in any serious way.

Derogatory racial terms are not ok.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#72

Post by talmand »

vollmond wrote: post #55
johneth wrote: post #10

As much as I enjoy watching those three mess around on TV, I'm not giving tax-dodging Amazon £80 (~$125) a year for the privilege. Prime seems to have a poor UI (and from what I've read has an inferior service in the UK in terms of apps and content). I wouldn't benefit from the next day delivery because I don't order enough from them. Their (Clarkson, Hammond, May) audience will decrease wherever they ended up, but A…

Are they doing anything illegal in their "tax-dodging"? If not, why would they ever choose to pay more? I've never understood the point of vilifying companies for using "loopholes" to pay less taxes. If there was a loophole that allowed me to pay less income tax, I would absolutely take advantage of it. Why give away more of my money than I have to? If you want them to pay more, close the loophole that allows them to…

I've fought this battle for a long time. It seems for most it's just a way to speak of their grievances against a company they don't like. It's just pointing their finger at the company saying they obviously are an evil corporation because they choose to take advantage of stupidly written tax laws that are totally legal yet I choose to define them as something only bad people do. Despite the fact they likely use similar "loopholes" in their own taxes and justify it in some way.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#73

Post by jo909 »

DanBC wrote: post #18
jo909 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many comedians do you know that never make any offensive jokes? Gender, race, handicaps/health etc are very common themes in almost every comedy program I know. I won't judge on the quality of specific jokes and where exactly a bad joke ends and a racial slur begins, but in general it is an accepted part of comedy.

It's fine for people to tell offensive jokes. Is it fine for me to call Roy Chubby Brown lazy and stupid and unfunny because of his bad jokes? Is it fine for me to ask people providing me content to try harder to be funny, rather than just flinging shit and calling it a joke?

I completely agree with you, there is lots of comedy that I dislike and that I choose to live without.

Still, implying that Amazon is ok with "racial slurs" is not quite the same than saying that Amazon is ok with "bad comedy".

I'm pretty sure some of the existing Amazon Prime original productions will fall into my personal "bad comedy" category already.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#74

Post by ris »

omonra wrote: post #67
DanBC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's the stuff about "slopes". And the stuff about gypsies. And the stuff about Mexicans. And all the other stuff. http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/here-are-all-the-nonra... http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/jere... Here's a useful Graniad opinion piece about Clarkson: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/not-eno... It's a persistent pattern. Whether that should affec…

Thanks for the links. The more I read from this guy, the more I like him. It's sort of a fine balance - we can't have everybody on tv making fun of gypsies and mexicans. On the other hand it feels too sterile when nobody can say what 90% of the people think. I'm glad he exists.

"what 90% of the people think"

I think a lot of people like to think that 90% of the population have the same rather twisted prejudices as them.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#75

Post by ablation »

abalos wrote: post #9
abstractbeliefs wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's well known in the UK and in that article that he ~ambiguously~ mumbled the word "tigger" in a nursery rhyme.

One thing people have to remember about Clarkson is that he grew up in an entirely different generation. It's not an excuse, but it's plausible that the man simply messed up. In the unfortunate era he was brought up in, the word wasn't tigger. EDIT: Also, not saying he's not a total arse sometimes. Just saying that I think in this particular scenario he got kind of shafted.

Other people his age seem to manage just fine not saying racist comments. Why is he an exception?

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#76

Post by theorique »

lmorris84 wrote: post #24

It'll be interesting to see how Amazon respond to the inevitable complaints when Clarkson does a "Clarkson". The BBC used to fall over themselves to apologise and give him another final warning - you'd have to assume this was discussed by both parties. Personally I hope Amazon just stay out of their way and let them get on with it.

One hopes its something reasonable like: "If you don't like the show, don't watch it."

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#77

Post by stephenr »

matwood wrote: post #36
stephenr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the people who could use it legally but refuse to subscribe to Amazon.

> Not to mention the people who could use it legally but refuse to subscribe to Amazon. Is that any different than those who refuse to subscribe to Netflix, HBO or Showtime, etc...

I believe so yes.

I would have no problem subscribing to a company that provides access to TV shows, movies etc.

I would have a big problem subscribing to Jeff Bezos' attempt to control the entire commercial world.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#78

Post by foldr »

freehunter wrote: post #64
foldr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you square these claims with the public outcry over a brief glimpse of Jannet Jackson's tit? There are plenty of examples of similar controversies in the U.S. media.

If we happen to see Jeremy's gentleman's sausage, we can worry about it then. Doesn't change the fact that South Park and Family Guy are two extremely popular shows in the US. And one of them is on network television. I mean, Game of Thrones has plenty of full-frontal nudity and lewd acts, and no one cares. Because it's not network television. My opinion? The people who care about such things aren't likely to be watc…

South Park was shown on Channel 4 in the UK, where someone certainly could have found it accidentally.

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#79

Post by foldr »

rtkwe wrote: post #59
foldr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you square these claims with the public outcry over a brief glimpse of Jannet Jackson's tit? There are plenty of examples of similar controversies in the U.S. media.

We're (pretty much) fine with violence, it's sexuality that makes some parts of the US go wonky and revert to a puritanical default.

It's not violence that's the real issue with Clarkson, it's racism. Yes, he ultimately got fired for doing something violent, but not on TV. If you say something (that could be interpreted as) racist on a mainstream US TV show there is also a backlash. E.g.:

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/mar/13/univisio...

Re: Amazon Sign Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May

#80

Post by omonra »

ris wrote: post #71
omonra wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not see it - but I read the Wiki article about his controversies. All of them appear to be no more than play on words, there is never any ill will or desire to humiliate anybody. The reason these particular jokes get noticed is because some people are obsessed with crying foul when certain groups are offended. He could make 10 jokes about the English/Scotts/Welsh and nobody would bat an eyelash.

So a play on words with the word "nigger" would be ok by you? "...never any ill will or desire to humiliate anybody" - this is the sort of very flimsy faux-naivity that I come to expect in these debates - especially on technical forums with a very literal-thinking crowd. "He could make 10 jokes about the English/Scotts/Welsh and nobody would bat an eyelash." Context. You cannot ignore context as much as you try. In t…

The word nigger still has pretty heavy connotations in our society so I don't think it would be ok. As you said yourself - context matters.

Likewise, I'm not aware of asians being discriminated in our modern day. That's really the point - I don't have a problem with Clarkson's play on words because to me it's a meaningless sound. And the fact that an asian guy might be called slope/slopes (?) and that's a feature of the bridge is a pun - hence it's funny.

They probably make an average of one joke/pun for 30 seconds of the show. Some of them may be unfunny or crude - but unless you can actually demonstrate ill will (simply alluding to the naivette of your interlocutors isn't sufficient) - it's ok.

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