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A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#61

Post by Zikes »

austerity wrote: post #49

Why do people who use the "face the consequences of his actions" argument consider it so self-evident? Accepting an unjust punishment for your good deeds isn't somehow more noble than escaping it. And not just an unjust punishment but an unjust punishment in the hands of the very institution whose corruption you exposed. Government lecturing us on proper civil disobedience is ironic to put it very mildly.

It's basically saying martyrdom is the one true path to change.

According to this statement, if we want justice, "blood" must be spilled.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#62

Post by teekert »

ionised wrote: post #48

This is the biggest load of horseshit I've ever read. > Since taking office, President Obama has worked with Congress to secure appropriate reforms that balance the protection of civil liberties with the ability of national security professionals to secure information vital to keep Americans safe. Yes of course he has. > Mr. Snowden's dangerous decision to steal and disclose classified information had severe conseque…

> Mr. Snowden's dangerous decision to steal and disclose classified information had severe consequences for the security of our country and the people who work day in and day out to protect it.

As you say, where is the prove and also: He did not disclose the documents, respected journalistic institutions did. He did not just leak anything and everything. He did the right thing. This response is an insult to everybody who signed the petition.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#63

Post by plonh »

SCAQTony wrote: post #32

One thing is certain about the petition process, It has proven to be ineffectual and a complete farce unless it is about "Star Wars day" or "pardoning" a turkey in November.

The petition process has one purpose, to provide an outlet for short attention span outrage, in a forum that poses 0 threat to the White House.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#65

Post by MrZongle2 »

Wow. A few dozen more unsurprising responses to high-profile petitions like this, and people might start suspecting that the White House petition site is really just a PR stunt by the current administration and not some kind of revolutionary, hopey-changey Government 2.0 effort.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#67

Post by agd »

> He should come home to the United States, and be judged by a jury of his peers

Why would Snowden come back when he can't make a public interest defence [1]? The trial would be a formality and he'd be locked up for 40 years without being able to contribute to any debate.

[1] The espionage act does not allow you to make a public interest defence and makes no distinction between whistle-blowers and spies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#68

Post by voxic11 »

Zikes wrote: post #51
cgearhart wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my understanding that the Espionage Act does not allow for an affirmative defense -- so Snowden can't claim that he was justified in releasing the materials, rather he can only dispute the facts as presented by the prosecution. But since we all pretty much agree about the facts of the case, the outcome is predictable. It would be "fair and open" in some sense, I guess, but the game is rigged. (Not to say that h…

As I tried to point out below, this is exactly the situation jury nullification was designed for. Guilty under the law, but pardoned by a jury of his peers.

Yeah but the government would never allow someone who would nullify the law to serve on his jury. Just like they removed all jurors who wouldn't consider the death penalty from the Boston bomber trial.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#69

Post by bjarnagin »

Zikes wrote: post #24
kenj0418 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He would almost certainly be put in jail as soon as he stepped foot on American Soil. In most circumstances someone could make bail awaiting trial, but considering that he'd been hiding in another country (and the government would argue that he might run off again) it would be very doubtful for him. But then they would have a trial. It would likely take a very long time (and he would likely be in jail during it). The…

Most importantly, anyone with knowledge of jury nullification [1] would not be allowed on the jury. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

This is a real problem. I was dismissed from a DUI case last year because I felt that it was a problem that the officer had forcibly administered a blood test while at the scene (this was after the Supreme Court case). The judge and prosecutor were very vocal about the fact that they were only interested in jurors who would be content to entertain whether the accused was intoxicated, without going any further into the matter.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#70

Post by bagels »

swalsh wrote: post #34
uniformlyrandom wrote: post #5

> He should come home to the United States, and be judged by a jury of his peers -- not hide behind the cover of an authoritarian regime. Not sure what I was expecting.

"judged by a jury of his peers" During the selection process for the Boston Bomber, a jury was selected of which only people willing to sentence him to death were allowed on. Snowdon would get a similar filtration. They would filter away any techies, etc until all that's left are people who will take the governments word as gospel. Ignoring the fact that the charges he's been charged with already don't allow for fair…

What evidence is there for your jury claims?
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