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How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

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Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#201

Post by rtz12 »

smhg wrote: post #115

This reminds me of the immer funny David Zuelke explaining the difference between "North Germany" and "South Germany" to a group of non-Germans. It was at an after-phpDay drink a few years ago. According to him, you can find the famous German Gründlichkeit in The South, with The North being the exact opposite. He used the Berlin airport as an example: "it was an endless failure". This was in 2011 or 2012. I wonder ho…

I guess he is south German? That would also explain why he is calling Berlin "north Germany". While geographically, Berlin is more north than south, it has nothing to do with the cultural region we call north Germany.

Btw, if anyone is interested, here is a map of what people call the region they are living in: http://www.atlas-alltagssprache.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/0...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#202

Post by troymc »

betaby wrote: post #121
troymc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal had a different sort of airport fiasco in the 1960s and 70s: Mirabel Airport was supposed to replace the Dorval Airport as the "Eastern Gateway to Canada" for human travellers. Today, Mirabel is mostly a cargo airport. And the terminal is being demolished... Meanwhile, Dorval was expanded several times. Also, it was renamed the Trudeau airport. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montr%C3%A9al%E2%80%93Mirabel_…

Looks like it's perfect time to stop expanding Dorval airport and concentrate on Mirabel future. Montreal area is growing, number of flights is growing. Important reason why Mirabel can't be used efficiently - is a lack of railway connection to it. If Mirabel were reachable by train there would be flights from it. And terminal wan't be demolished by the way, there is big push back for that.

According to news reports, the Mirabel terminal demolition began in November 2014: http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/mirabel-airports-...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#204

Post by Kenji »

cmarschner wrote: post #128
Kenji wrote: post #99

I don't understand why the state funds airports. If people want airports, there is a demand, and that demand is either big enough to fund an airport and is satisfied, or it isn't because people don't want to spend that kind of money. Seems to me like something the state shouldn't be involved in.

Airports are shared infrastructure, just like roads. As such they are serving a common purpose, and don't have to make money by themselves (rather indirectly through enabling business). That's exactly where the government should be involved in. E.g. It makes more sense to have a single airport rather than several competing ones, airports shouldn't go bancrupt and be closed, and building them might require changing la…

There, I turned your statement around to show you how flawed your reasoning is:

The internet is a shared infrastructure, just like roads. As such it is serving a common purpose, and doesn't have to make money by itself (rather indirectly through enabling business). That's exactly where the government should be involved in. E.g. It makes more sense to have a single provider rather than several competing ones, providers shouldn't go bancrupt and be closed, and establishing them might require changing laws or evicting/relocating 1000s of people. These are all in the sphere of public responsibility.

Absolutely there should be competition, it's the main driver behind efficiency and quality!

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#205

Post by justthistime_ »

Kenji wrote: post #204
cmarschner wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airports are shared infrastructure, just like roads. As such they are serving a common purpose, and don't have to make money by themselves (rather indirectly through enabling business). That's exactly where the government should be involved in. E.g. It makes more sense to have a single airport rather than several competing ones, airports shouldn't go bancrupt and be closed, and building them might require changing la…

There, I turned your statement around to show you how flawed your reasoning is: The internet is a shared infrastructure, just like roads. As such it is serving a common purpose, and doesn't have to make money by itself (rather indirectly through enabling business). That's exactly where the government should be involved in. E.g. It makes more sense to have a single provider rather than several competing ones, provider…

I think you see for yourself where your example falls apart.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#206

Post by protomyth »

germanier wrote: post #71
protomyth wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Imtech send fraudulent invoices they knew nobody would double-check. This is a practice that seems really common with such projects." Yeah, this is a bit too typical and happens in the USA also. If you ever have to deal with building something, check every invoice as if it was from Snidely Whiplash.

The article specially mentions a one-page invoice with items like "overhead costs" and "disturbances while building" amounting to millions – billed at a time where they still had 5000 other invoices to check.

That would be the time to try to slip something through. Also, its not like the accounting department knowns what the invoices mean. This is why a lot of places require work orders / purchase orders to match each invoice. No WO or PO #, no pay invoice.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#207

Post by lotharbot »

eric_the_read wrote: post #109
strictnein wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all the crazy artwork. The conspiracy theorists go nuts over it. http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/03/20/denver-internatio...

I had no idea there were so many conspiracies about the airport, despite the fact that I fly out of it all the time. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Denver_Airport_conspiracy_theor... debunks several, though all it can really say about the art is, "Huh, yeah, that's weird. So what?" which isn't particularly dispositive. That demon horse scares the crap out of me, though.

> "That demon horse scares the crap out of me, though"

We call him "Blucifer". He killed his creator (really -- a piece of the sculpture fell on the artist's leg and severed an artery.)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/03/17/the_blue...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#208

Post by oasisbob »

blakeyrat wrote: post #107
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complexity of that project is extremely high. My cousin is a civil engineer in Stuttgart, and he showed me a cross-sectional diagram of the affected area and the number of considerations seemed intractably high to me. But more generally, these kinds of megaprojects go over budget in nearly every part of the world -- especially when tunneling is involved. Here in the United States, two examples are Boston's "Big D…

In the interests of being pedantic, and local pride: Seattle's viaduct replacement isn't over budget-- yet . It's extremely likely to go over budget, but don't count the chickens before they've hatched. The last budget review came to the conclusion that it's still possible to finish the project as budgeted and scheduled. http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/seattle/2015/04/23/ber...

On budget, perhaps. Maybe. On schedule? No. The report even says as much, page 4:

"The tunnel project will not achieve STP’s original completion date of December 2015."

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