A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#31

Post by titzer » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

The pervasive surveillance activities of the government are one thing; one could kind of expect it in the absence of law or a constitution.

But it's not just that.

The deliberate activities to undermine, weaken, and even ban encryption and the very foundations for secure communications is just plain dirty. It's clear that the thrust of these programs was never the best interest of the public, but furtherance of espionage and surveillance.

But what is absolutely beyond the pale is the the deliberate construction of a wall secrecy with full cooperation of secret courts hidden behind a wall of lies with minimal oversight. This is not the functioning of a government that is trying to balance the rights of its citizens against security. It's a blatant attempt to construct an inner institution alien to democracy and alien to every single principle the United States was founded upon.

The endless prosecution of whistleblowers is one more thing. It's shown the government as a cabal who will use every weapon in its arsenal to fight those who would do anything to expose how corrupt and self-serving it's become.

Don't tell us to trust you. Why should we? We have no mechanisms to control or even influence this behemoth anymore.

Do they really think that Snowden would have made even a dent holding a sign in front the of White House or appearing on a news program? Seriously? Do they really think he would have _ever_ faced a trial by a jury of his peers?

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#32

Post by SCAQTony » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:48 PM UTC

One thing is certain about the petition process, It has proven to be ineffectual and a complete farce unless it is about "Star Wars day" or "pardoning" a turkey in November.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#33

Post by econner » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:51 PM UTC

JosephBrown wrote: post #21

"Challenge it, speak out, engage in a constructive act of protest" How do you do this when secret courts can keep you silenced?

Agreed. And, of course the NSA only uses "lawful tools." Nope, never are they found unconstitutional.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#34

Post by swalsh » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:53 PM UTC

uniformlyrandom wrote: post #5

> He should come home to the United States, and be judged by a jury of his peers -- not hide behind the cover of an authoritarian regime. Not sure what I was expecting.

"judged by a jury of his peers"

During the selection process for the Boston Bomber, a jury was selected of which only people willing to sentence him to death were allowed on.

Snowdon would get a similar filtration. They would filter away any techies, etc until all that's left are people who will take the governments word as gospel.

Ignoring the fact that the charges he's been charged with already don't allow for fairness, the trial process wouldn't make things any better.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#35

Post by phaus » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

Sadly, it looks like more thought went into the response for the petition about building a death star.

As far as the claim of "Hiding behind an authoritarian regime." I'm sure he would have loved to take refuge in a free country, but so far it looks like they are all run by cowards.

There seems to be a false idea in our country that civil disobedience demands martyrdom.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#36

Post by venomsnake » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

Zikes wrote: post #12

uniformlyrandom wrote: post #5

> He should come home to the United States, and be judged by a jury of his peers -- not hide behind the cover of an authoritarian regime. Not sure what I was expecting.

Yep, that certainly worked out well for Chelsea Manning [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#Detention

Manning was not whistleblower.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#37

Post by vessenes » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:55 PM UTC

Interesting messaging about Russia; that's probably the most interesting thing about the whole note to me. Russia = authoritarian regime.

I wonder when the US state department started approving messaging like that about Russia.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#38

Post by knodi123 » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:55 PM UTC

JosephBrown wrote: post #21

"Challenge it, speak out, engage in a constructive act of protest" How do you do this when secret courts can keep you silenced?

Especially considering that the NSA has proven itself willing to tell bold-faced lies directly to congress? I mean, how do you whistleblow about that kind of thing without stealing classified information and releasing it publicly?

This whitehouse response is a cruel joke.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#39

Post by fnordfnordfnord » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:56 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #18

I have doubts whether Edward Snowden would get a fair open trial, with a jury of his peers. Serious doubts. The entire Snowden affair reminds me very much of Daniel Ellsberg. At the time Ellsberg was condemed by many (especially in the military industrial complex) as a traitor but now I think that just about everyone believes that Ellsberg did a good thing for our country and society. I think that history will look k…

>but now I think that just about everyone believes that Ellsberg did a good thing for our country and society.

I think there are a lot of "security" hawks that would disagree.

Re: A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

#40

Post by cgearhart » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 2:57 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #18

I have doubts whether Edward Snowden would get a fair open trial, with a jury of his peers. Serious doubts. The entire Snowden affair reminds me very much of Daniel Ellsberg. At the time Ellsberg was condemed by many (especially in the military industrial complex) as a traitor but now I think that just about everyone believes that Ellsberg did a good thing for our country and society. I think that history will look k…

It is my understanding that the Espionage Act does not allow for an affirmative defense -- so Snowden can't claim that he was justified in releasing the materials, rather he can only dispute the facts as presented by the prosecution. But since we all pretty much agree about the facts of the case, the outcome is predictable. It would be "fair and open" in some sense, I guess, but the game is rigged. (Not to say that he is innocent or guilty, just that "come face charges" is basically equivalent to "come serve jail time" in this case.)