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How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

blogs.lse.ac.uk

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Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#61

Post by analog31 »

netcan wrote: post #21

I think this article is reaching a bit. There are some interesting things about this drug dealer model though. Why do the bottom rungs agree to play this game? I think the dynamic manifests in a lot of highly aspirational industries. The money, prestige and such going to the slim top layer can act in lieu of benefits going directly to participants. Many one-on-one sports are examples. Floyd Mayweather might make clos…

As a part time working musician, living in a university town, I know a lot of people on the lower rungs of both ladders. A common thread that I've noticed is that these people are compelled to pursue their fields, out of a devotion to their subject matter that would seem to frustrate a Homo Economicus analysis of their behavior.

The drug dealer analogy would be more fitting if dealers were paid in drugs. ;-)

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#62

Post by kyllo »

roadnottaken wrote: post #20
mangecoeur wrote: post #9

Interesting - some important points overlooked: - They assume that for everyone doing a PhD there is an equivalently attractive job waiting for them. However, many young people going doing PhDs (especially in the countries highlighted, Portugal, Greece, Slovakia) aren't choosing between a steady job and the uncertainty of PhD - there are often either no jobs available or very unattractive ones (e.g. working well belo…

PhD programs in the sciences (e.g. bio, chem, phys) in the US also come with a salary/stipend that one can live off of.

And any professor will tell you that if you have to pay for your PhD yourself, you shouldn't be doing a PhD in the first place.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#64

Post by sjg007 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #7
j2kun wrote: post #5

The article claims a problem is that there aren't enough mid-tier positions, for those who have just acquired a PhD but aren't yet suitable for a professorship. What sort of solution could one imagine? Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career.

Reduce the number of graduate programme places so the over supply is less, either by reducing the number of places reasonably evenly across the system or by closing marginal doctoral programmes altogether. There are a lot of universities that graduate Ph.D.s who have virtually no chance of a decent academic position. The first tier universities graduate more than 5 times as many Drs. each year than are necessary to r…

There are thousands of foreigners will to take the places. You can't talk about academia and ignore immigration.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#65

Post by sjg007 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #7
j2kun wrote: post #5

The article claims a problem is that there aren't enough mid-tier positions, for those who have just acquired a PhD but aren't yet suitable for a professorship. What sort of solution could one imagine? Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career.

Reduce the number of graduate programme places so the over supply is less, either by reducing the number of places reasonably evenly across the system or by closing marginal doctoral programmes altogether. There are a lot of universities that graduate Ph.D.s who have virtually no chance of a decent academic position. The first tier universities graduate more than 5 times as many Drs. each year than are necessary to r…

There are thousands of foreigners will to take the places. You can't talk about academia and ignore immigration.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#66

Post by giaour »

roadnottaken wrote: post #20
mangecoeur wrote: post #9

Interesting - some important points overlooked: - They assume that for everyone doing a PhD there is an equivalently attractive job waiting for them. However, many young people going doing PhDs (especially in the countries highlighted, Portugal, Greece, Slovakia) aren't choosing between a steady job and the uncertainty of PhD - there are often either no jobs available or very unattractive ones (e.g. working well belo…

PhD programs in the sciences (e.g. bio, chem, phys) in the US also come with a salary/stipend that one can live off of.

This is also true of PhD programs in the humanities.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#67

Post by jschwartzi »

i000 wrote: post #33
danieltillett wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly missed the golden parachute. Even if I hung around until I was deadwood I would not have made anything financially. No academic in Australia gets rich just out of being an academic. I don’t regret my time as an academic other than my last two years. I should have left earlier, but the security the job afforded my family kept me there longer than I really should have stayed. This is a mistake many people m…

A well established principal investigator said this to his lab during a crisis "we are out of money" meeting: "We are all in the same boat, but only I have a parachute"

If somebody said this to me at my current job I'd start using up all the paid vacation time I have to look for another job.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#68

Post by joesmo »

"There is an expanding mass of rank-and-file “outsiders” ready to forgo income for future wealth, and a small core of “insiders” securing incomes largely at the expense of the mass. We can call it a winner-take-all market."

Interesting. If I didn't know any better, I thought he was describing the situation with many tech startups. The investors have all the money, the founders are the only ones with any hope of making good money, and the rest just serve as cannon fodder in the investors' and founders' games. This actually seems to be a common pattern in quite a few other industries as well, and from the perspective of an established business owner, is the ideal structure of any business.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#69

Post by larrys »

"The reason for this is that the prospect of future wealth, rather than current income and working conditions, is the main driver for people to stay in the business: low-level drug sellers forgo current income for (uncertain) future wealth. "

May be true but also could be that the person who decides to sell drugs for less than they could make at McDonalds couldn't even land a job at McDonalds or any other traditional employment. Similar to how many people go into business for themselves because they are not cut out to work for anybody else. It's not all about money and future prospects.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#70

Post by Ivanov »

danieltillett wrote: post #13

As some one who managed to succeed in the academic rat race (tenured professor) and who quit to do more productive things, my feeling is academia is more like cult. When inside it you believe you are doing important things, and on occasion you actual do (i.e. teaching and research), but the important activities are basically a hobby you fit around your full-time job of administration and politics. Once outside you re…

> Once outside you realise you were wasting your life on trivia of the most meaningless kind.

I think it depends. From the outside, industry looks to be churning out nothing, but trivial stuff for sale.

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