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How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

blogs.lse.ac.uk

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Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#21

Post by netcan »

I think this article is reaching a bit. There are some interesting things about this drug dealer model though. Why do the bottom rungs agree to play this game? I think the dynamic manifests in a lot of highly aspirational industries. The money, prestige and such going to the slim top layer can act in lieu of benefits going directly to participants.

Many one-on-one sports are examples. Floyd Mayweather might make close to $500m in career prize winning. The "contenders" who fight him (apart from big names like Manny Pacquiao or Oscar De La Hoya) under him will earn ˜1% of that. Beneath them, "journeymen" (maybe the top 25 in a weight class) fighters often make something like that $3 an hours wage.

I suspect acting is often similar. Music, stand up comedy and arts in general. The possibility of attaining the prestige and earning of Tom Cruise keeps aspiring actors in gyms and auditions, trying to climb the steep ladder.

Apart from all that, there is definitely something in the zeitgeist about universities and academia. I think they are in for a tsunami of change sometime in the next generation. This is just one example. The weird entanglement of research and education. The trading on Prestige. The dynamism of competition under them (non academic education, bootcamps, online learning, etc.).

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#22

Post by benihana »

lukasm wrote: post #16

>The reason for this is that the prospect of future wealth, rather than current income and working conditions, is the main driver for people to stay in the business: low-level drug sellers forgo current income for (uncertain) future wealth. That's description of statups.

Betting on the future is a pretty common tactic in all aspects of life.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#23

Post by netcan »

mangecoeur wrote: post #9

Interesting - some important points overlooked: - They assume that for everyone doing a PhD there is an equivalently attractive job waiting for them. However, many young people going doing PhDs (especially in the countries highlighted, Portugal, Greece, Slovakia) aren't choosing between a steady job and the uncertainty of PhD - there are often either no jobs available or very unattractive ones (e.g. working well belo…

I agree. Leaving this out completely avoid the question of why people at the bottom play along. Academia ticks a lot of boxes for some people. Some boxes are even monetary.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#24

Post by akshaypuradkar »

theOnliest wrote: post #14
learnstats2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career. But why not? If academic work is for the benefit of mankind, there should be a desire in society for that kind of research[0]. This desire is only muted because of commercial interests having increased influence (directly and indirectly) over academia. [0]Perhaps there is a mi…

I appreciate your point, but this kind of attitude often (intended or not) leaves humanities PhDs out in the cold. Sure, for a PhD in computer science you might convince the public that your work is worthwhile (there may be some practical application). My PhD is in the field of music theory...a field which has practically zero real-world applications. It's still important as an academic field, but the long-term benef…

"long-term benefits to society" is one attitude. Surely you have better argument in defense of your field or humanities generally. Can you elaborate a bit on the kind of attitude you talk of?

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#25

Post by daleroberts »

danieltillett wrote: post #17
timrpeterson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having tenure affords opportunity. Can't get the golden parachute unless you play the game long enough (i.e., waste prime years).

I certainly missed the golden parachute. Even if I hung around until I was deadwood I would not have made anything financially. No academic in Australia gets rich just out of being an academic. I don’t regret my time as an academic other than my last two years. I should have left earlier, but the security the job afforded my family kept me there longer than I really should have stayed. This is a mistake many people m…

I beg to differ. You can make a significant amount of money as an academic in Australia if you are in the right discipline to get a market loading and be able to do consulting on the side. AU$200-300K a year is easy to achieve for these academics some are even pulling in $500K+ by the end of their career. Plus the 17% superannuation means you'll retire with a nice big pot of retirement money at the end. Very hard to find a comparable position in industry...

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#26

Post by 1stop »

daleroberts wrote: post #25
danieltillett wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly missed the golden parachute. Even if I hung around until I was deadwood I would not have made anything financially. No academic in Australia gets rich just out of being an academic. I don’t regret my time as an academic other than my last two years. I should have left earlier, but the security the job afforded my family kept me there longer than I really should have stayed. This is a mistake many people m…

I beg to differ. You can make a significant amount of money as an academic in Australia if you are in the right discipline to get a market loading and be able to do consulting on the side. AU$200-300K a year is easy to achieve for these academics some are even pulling in $500K+ by the end of their career. Plus the 17% superannuation means you'll retire with a nice big pot of retirement money at the end. Very hard to…

Which discipline are you speaking of? That kind of money I've only heard of in finance land (for academics)... and that kind of dried up after 2008.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#27

Post by sillygeese »

daleroberts wrote: post #25
danieltillett wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly missed the golden parachute. Even if I hung around until I was deadwood I would not have made anything financially. No academic in Australia gets rich just out of being an academic. I don’t regret my time as an academic other than my last two years. I should have left earlier, but the security the job afforded my family kept me there longer than I really should have stayed. This is a mistake many people m…

I beg to differ. You can make a significant amount of money as an academic in Australia if you are in the right discipline to get a market loading and be able to do consulting on the side. AU$200-300K a year is easy to achieve for these academics some are even pulling in $500K+ by the end of their career. Plus the 17% superannuation means you'll retire with a nice big pot of retirement money at the end. Very hard to…

Ah yes, fat salaries on other people's money, and a fat pension on other people's money! Sweet deal!

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#28

Post by 1stop »

theOnliest wrote: post #14
learnstats2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career. But why not? If academic work is for the benefit of mankind, there should be a desire in society for that kind of research[0]. This desire is only muted because of commercial interests having increased influence (directly and indirectly) over academia. [0]Perhaps there is a mi…

I appreciate your point, but this kind of attitude often (intended or not) leaves humanities PhDs out in the cold. Sure, for a PhD in computer science you might convince the public that your work is worthwhile (there may be some practical application). My PhD is in the field of music theory...a field which has practically zero real-world applications. It's still important as an academic field, but the long-term benef…

Music theory and the humanities in general are concerned with the creation of culture itself. It is just as important as a 'practical application'. (IMO)

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#29

Post by 1stop »

sillygeese wrote: post #27
daleroberts wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. You can make a significant amount of money as an academic in Australia if you are in the right discipline to get a market loading and be able to do consulting on the side. AU$200-300K a year is easy to achieve for these academics some are even pulling in $500K+ by the end of their career. Plus the 17% superannuation means you'll retire with a nice big pot of retirement money at the end. Very hard to…

Ah yes, fat salaries on other people's money, and a fat pension on other people's money! Sweet deal!

... That describes every job... ever. Unless you are the one stealing the resources directly from the land... in which case: Fat salaries on other peoples' property.

But hey, hate on the academics, they are the WORST! right?

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#30

Post by stared »

lukasm wrote: post #16

>The reason for this is that the prospect of future wealth, rather than current income and working conditions, is the main driver for people to stay in the business: low-level drug sellers forgo current income for (uncertain) future wealth. That's description of statups.

With startups, you can pivot (with academia you can too, but it's rather 3-5 years).

With startups, you can fail (and try again); in academia, if you fail, you fail.

In short: with startups, if something is not working (or you totally lost belief in it), you can quit a project without quitting startups for good. In academia, if you want to stay, you often need to stay in a miserable conditions 1-3 more years (e.g. to finish PhD, postdoc, etc), just not to get kicked out for good.

Moreover, with startups, you can start your group being 20, without anyone's blessing.

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