Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

blogs.lse.ac.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 114 posts

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#11

Post by learnstats2 »

j2kun wrote: post #5

The article claims a problem is that there aren't enough mid-tier positions, for those who have just acquired a PhD but aren't yet suitable for a professorship. What sort of solution could one imagine? Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career.

>Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career.

But why not? If academic work is for the benefit of mankind, there should be a desire in society for that kind of research[0].

This desire is only muted because of commercial interests having increased influence (directly and indirectly) over academia.

[0]Perhaps there is a mismatch in what we mean by 'kind of research' here. But this is a political point as well - the kind of research that has long-term benefits to society should be exactly the kind of research that furthers academic careers.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#13

Post by danieltillett »

As some one who managed to succeed in the academic rat race (tenured professor) and who quit to do more productive things, my feeling is academia is more like cult. When inside it you believe you are doing important things, and on occasion you actual do (i.e. teaching and research), but the important activities are basically a hobby you fit around your full-time job of administration and politics. Once outside you realise you were wasting your life on trivia of the most meaningless kind. While I miss some parts I have to say I am glad to be out.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#14

Post by theOnliest »

learnstats2 wrote: post #11
j2kun wrote: post #5

The article claims a problem is that there aren't enough mid-tier positions, for those who have just acquired a PhD but aren't yet suitable for a professorship. What sort of solution could one imagine? Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career.

>Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career. But why not? If academic work is for the benefit of mankind, there should be a desire in society for that kind of research[0]. This desire is only muted because of commercial interests having increased influence (directly and indirectly) over academia. [0]Perhaps there is a mi…

I appreciate your point, but this kind of attitude often (intended or not) leaves humanities PhDs out in the cold. Sure, for a PhD in computer science you might convince the public that your work is worthwhile (there may be some practical application). My PhD is in the field of music theory...a field which has practically zero real-world applications. It's still important as an academic field, but the long-term benefit to society of a music theory dissertation is simply that we understand a particular aspect of music better.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#15

Post by timrpeterson »

danieltillett wrote: post #13

As some one who managed to succeed in the academic rat race (tenured professor) and who quit to do more productive things, my feeling is academia is more like cult. When inside it you believe you are doing important things, and on occasion you actual do (i.e. teaching and research), but the important activities are basically a hobby you fit around your full-time job of administration and politics. Once outside you re…

Having tenure affords opportunity. Can't get the golden parachute unless you play the game long enough (i.e., waste prime years).

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#16

Post by lukasm »

>The reason for this is that the prospect of future wealth, rather than current income and working conditions, is the main driver for people to stay in the business: low-level drug sellers forgo current income for (uncertain) future wealth.

That's description of statups.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#17

Post by danieltillett »

timrpeterson wrote: post #15
danieltillett wrote: post #13

As some one who managed to succeed in the academic rat race (tenured professor) and who quit to do more productive things, my feeling is academia is more like cult. When inside it you believe you are doing important things, and on occasion you actual do (i.e. teaching and research), but the important activities are basically a hobby you fit around your full-time job of administration and politics. Once outside you re…

Having tenure affords opportunity. Can't get the golden parachute unless you play the game long enough (i.e., waste prime years).

I certainly missed the golden parachute. Even if I hung around until I was deadwood I would not have made anything financially. No academic in Australia gets rich just out of being an academic.

I don’t regret my time as an academic other than my last two years. I should have left earlier, but the security the job afforded my family kept me there longer than I really should have stayed. This is a mistake many people make when in a secure job when they have kids so I am not too angry at myself. It is an experience few people get to have so I am grateful to have had it.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#18

Post by [deleted] »

lukasm wrote: post #16

>The reason for this is that the prospect of future wealth, rather than current income and working conditions, is the main driver for people to stay in the business: low-level drug sellers forgo current income for (uncertain) future wealth. That's description of statups.

[deleted]

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#19

Post by pcr0 »

lukasm wrote: post #16

>The reason for this is that the prospect of future wealth, rather than current income and working conditions, is the main driver for people to stay in the business: low-level drug sellers forgo current income for (uncertain) future wealth. That's description of statups.

There's a difference though. With a startup, you're practically working for yourself.

In academia, you end up having to do a lot of ad hoc work for other people.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#20

Post by roadnottaken »

mangecoeur wrote: post #9

Interesting - some important points overlooked: - They assume that for everyone doing a PhD there is an equivalently attractive job waiting for them. However, many young people going doing PhDs (especially in the countries highlighted, Portugal, Greece, Slovakia) aren't choosing between a steady job and the uncertainty of PhD - there are often either no jobs available or very unattractive ones (e.g. working well belo…

PhD programs in the sciences (e.g. bio, chem, phys) in the US also come with a salary/stipend that one can live off of.
Post reply on HN