I am baffled how he can even compare the military raids done in Iraq to the experience he mentions. Of course I'm not saying it`s not a harrowing experience, but it didn't end up with him dead, or worse yet jailed in some obscure military jail without any recourse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_to_the_Dark_Side
In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
261–270 of 301 posts
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#262This is a really well written article. This also echo's alot of the sentiment that many people have. I remember reading recently about the differences in police training from Germany vs the US. One of the things that stuck out at me was the huge amount of hours they spend training to "not" shoot, and learning how to de-escalate situations. It's no wonder we have so many issues here in the US, it makes me sad.
What does it mean for us Europeans, who still have, for the moment, more lenient police? Should we expect that America uprises against their own police? Draw a Fergusson every 3 months? Becomes either less economically stable or more economically agressive? Should we expect that US' political influence requires us to step up our police, the same way France escalated an NSA-style law six months ago? It worries me that…
In Europe you are more likely to have lightly if unarmed cops because its more acceptable to have troops with fully automatic weapons deployed. I still remember quite a few pictures of such at airports if not on the streets
so six of one, half dozen of another.
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nonsense. They are not exploited.
Of course they are exploited. If I knew your philosophical leanings I could construct an example that would be quite common -- but for all I know you think it is not exploitation to offer jobs for minimum wage with no benefits that offer only 19 hrs a week of work (no benefits) but demand 24/7 availability. So let me use a more extreme example. When individuals are suspected (NOT yet proven) of illegal immigration th…
Surely THAT counts as slavery.
I bet the excuse (if an excuse exists at all) is the obvious "nobody is forced to work"/"we provide (bare minimum) amenities to anybody that wants them" circular reasoning.
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because the German cops are not push overs either. If somebody will attack them they will fight back. But by trying to deescalate first you set the tone for the interaction. Most of the recently published police violence in the US seems to come from really trivial situations, not from criminals. I watched the Sandra Bland video. The cop stops her for a trivial traffic violation (I often forget my turns signals too an…
> The cop stops her for a trivial traffic violation (I often forget my turns signals too and I see a lot of people doing that too). It's worse than that. The cop tailgates her, waiting for an excuse to pull her over. His excuse is that she fails to signal while switching lanes (to create some distance between them.) He was going to pull her over no matter what. This may have been a trivial situation for the cop, but…
She fails to stop at a stop sign at the beginning
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Rhoads defended the procedure, calling the officers’ actions “on point.” It’s not standard to conduct investigations beforehand because that delays the apprehension of suspects, he told me. > I noted that the officers could have sought information from the apartment complex’s security guard that would have resolved the matter without violence. But he played down the importance of such information: “It doesn’t matte…
Personal safety is the #1 priority of any emergency worker. If you don't keep yourself safe, then that's one less person to be able to help out. Add to this that there isn't an endless stream of people both willing and able to do the job in the first place, and also that training takes a fair while, and it's clear that self-preservation is a requirement for emergency workers. By all means, question police methods. Bu…
Are you an LEO?
"Priority of life" for law enforcement is:
1) Victims
2) Innocent Bystanders
3a) Other Responders (Fire/EMS)
3b) Law Enforcement Officers
4) Bad Guys
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The cop stops her for a trivial traffic violation (I often forget my turns signals too and I see a lot of people doing that too). It's worse than that. The cop tailgates her, waiting for an excuse to pull her over. His excuse is that she fails to signal while switching lanes (to create some distance between them.) He was going to pull her over no matter what. This may have been a trivial situation for the cop, but…
She fails to stop at a stop sign at the beginning
Edit: this is true, it is Bland's car turning right onto the thoroughfare as the officer drives away from his first stop. It doesn't appear that she comes to a full stop or that she is using her blinker when she turns. This is probably what caused the officer to actually pursue Bland so quickly after finishing his prior stop.
This doesn't explain or justify any of the rest of the incident though.
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The fact that he had just stolen something has absolutely no relevance to the question of whether Darren Wilson acted correctly when he fired his gun. The fact that his physical description, the event of the strong-armed robbery, and the report of the stolen item, was brought-cast - which led to the events that followed - is not relevant?
How is it relevant? The question is whether Darren Wilson was justified in using lethal force. The standards for the use of lethal force by police do not, to my knowledge, contain any mention of previous criminal activity by the suspect. The typical standard in the US is that lethal force is only justified when the person represents an immediate danger to others. I personally think it should go a bit farther than thi…
The points in the article dispel the myth of the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" story. It obviously did not go that way at all (e.g., such as not even being shot in the back of the head).
The earlier events might, or might not, be relevant to the use of deadly force in a court of law, but they are relevant to my point of the narrative, of the story told to the public - the original comment you are relying to.
And yes, garbing at a cop's gun, trying to wrestle it away from him, and then later charging at him like a bull - is justifiable use of deadly force. And the previous events can be used to show the mindset of the individuals.
These things happen quickly, and there is no restart of the game.
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#268"nothing ... is more important than officers’ personal security" I'm not sure this is true. If it were, why would they put themselves into potentially violent situations? It seems to me the priorities are 1. Make the arrest. 2. Officer safety. 3. Public safety. 4. Justice. In that order. They are related, to get 4 you sometimes need 1-3. But not always. 'Militarised police' is correct, because this corresponds exactl…
Wouldn't you say Public Safety should triumph Officer Safety?
Yes, that was the subtext of my point: the priorities are wrong, if the mission is to 'protect and serve'.
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Judge each person's criminal case on their own merits. If neither the civilian nor the cop can be proven to have committed a crime, they should both go free. Civil cases, on the other hand, merely need to meet the standard of "a preponderance of evidence" to support the claim. A mysteriously malfunctioning camera ought to meet that standard, and thus be grounds for an award of damages due to misconduct. This cost wil…
> If neither the civilian nor the cop can be proven to have committed a crime, they should both go free. This won't help much if the citizen is dead.
It's a fact of our justice system (and indeed any reasonable justice system) that if you murder somebody but there isn't any way to prove it, you go free.
Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it relevant? The question is whether Darren Wilson was justified in using lethal force. The standards for the use of lethal force by police do not, to my knowledge, contain any mention of previous criminal activity by the suspect. The typical standard in the US is that lethal force is only justified when the person represents an immediate danger to others. I personally think it should go a bit farther than thi…
The points in the article dispel the myth of the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" story. It obviously did not go that way at all (e.g., such as not even being shot in the back of the head). The earlier events might, or might not, be relevant to the use of deadly force in a court of law, but they are relevant to my point of the narrative, of the story told to the public - the original comment you are relying to. And yes, garbi…
They may be relevant to your point of the narrative, but my point is that the key question is whether Wilson was justified in his use of deadly force, and the earlier events are not relative to that. That is why the portion of my comment which you quoted says "...has absolutely no relevance to the question of whether Darren Wilson acted correctly...." (Emphasis added.)
Grabbing at a cop's gun may justify deadly force, but it wouldn't have happened if Wilson hadn't drawn it in the first place. It is the drawing of the gun which is the key event here. If he had simply stomped on the gas pedal instead then this whole controversy would have stopped before it started.