Live data from Hacker News

How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

bloomberg.com

141–150 of 210 posts

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#141
Also the guy who designed the smoke extractor system wasn't actually an engineer. Stern broke the story last year.[1]

My German is pretty basic, but "Geschasster BER-Planer war nur technischer Zeichner ... Doch di Mauro ist kein Ingenieur, wie angenommen wurde" amounts to "Ousted BER-Planner was only a technical draftsman ... but di Mauro is not an engineer, as was thought".

[1] [German] http://www.stern.de/wirtschaft/news/stern-exklusiv-geschasst...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#142
post #56

This is what happens with many software projects following crazy customers and waterfall approaches. Clearly we never speak about 6 billion, but hey, shit happens...

Can you develop a big infrastructure project using agile methodologies?

Rhetorical question or not? I've often asked at Agile conferences, it seems Agile can't be applied to hardware industries.

I can't imagine the first sprints: First the infrastructure for A320 then iterate through to A380? First the police checks the iterate through to baggage claims? First the roof then the air conducts? It seems the closest to this mind set is: First Tegel Airport then upgrade Tegel again...

The root reason is certainly, we've invented Agile because software industries have hundreds of competitors with fast moving markets and we needed to lower the overhead costs. Even though the article explains how Schwartz pursued moving targets, airports have quite steady markets, competitors (train, etc) aren't massively agile, and there's a lot to gain by studying things ahead.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you build an airport near the city, it becomes impossible to expand. San Diego is a good example of this, a single-runway airport that's surrounded by the bay, I-5, the Marine Corps Recruit Depot, and a residential neighborhood. It's running near capacity and impossible to expand. There's simply nowhere to go.

They can expand into the water, adding an extra East-West strip. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Artificial_island_air...

Ordinarily yes, but the bay might not be wide enough to fill in part of it, especially when you're trying to fit aircraft carriers through it.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that the quality isn't too bad. Sure, the grammar is way off but you can actually understand what they are trying to say.

I find how well that works is directly related to how closely related English is to the language in question. The further you get from its Germanic and Latin roots, the proportionally less sense a rough translation makes. Some of that is figures of speech, some of it is colloquialisms, some of it is just weird grammar. For example, Japanese tends to omit the subject, which is incredibly confusing when directly transl…

I think german grammar is really diferent from english. For example they make a sandwich with verbs. For example:

I have been in Berlin. vs I have in Berlin been. Its not the exact translation and maybe theres a beter example but its the idea.

Ich bin in berlin gewessen.

There is also all the declinations. But yeah its noy japanese.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#145
post #27
post #8

But is it only BER? As mentioned int the article - what about Stuttgart 21 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21 ) etc.? It is possible that these sites exist as new financial "loopholes", transferring tax-money from the government to private contractors without much oversight.

Here in Australia we have found even more egregious ways of transferring money for failed transport infrastructure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_West_Link,_Melbourne

In summary: sign $5b contracts for a highly politicized white elephant just weeks before a scheduled election where the government will be booted out of office.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#146
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK the smoke was pulled in at the ceiling of the floors. And then sent downwards and vented out somewhere on the side instead of on top of the building. The original design was never tested, because the building as originally designed never existed. Each addition ordered up by Schwarz required shifting passenger flows through the terminal. That meant rebuilding walls, exits, emergency lights, ventilation systems,…

IDKSAS, but wouldn't a system like this (electrically powered venting) be prone to failure in an actual fire? If power fails with side/down venting, the smoke would have no where to go.

Sure, so you have to design it so the power supply is reliable enough even during a fire. It's a concern but it's by no means impossible to deal with.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#147
post #79

When I last visited Berlin, I heard a joke about the airport's problems that I thought was very funny: "Niemand hat die Absicht, einen Flughafen zu errichten!" ('Nobody has the intention to build an airport!') Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall#Construction_begin...

I have actually heard many say the same thing about the California high speed rail project -- that it'll end up being a real estate handout after the project goes haywire midway.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's for the Amateurs, Professionals do a whole World Cup

And to get into the hall of fame, you do an Olympics.

Look no further than the $2.5 billion debacle that is the new Tokyo Olympic stadium.

A rather lavish expenditure for a country that is deep in debt.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#149
post #115

This reminds me of the immer funny David Zuelke explaining the difference between "North Germany" and "South Germany" to a group of non-Germans. It was at an after-phpDay drink a few years ago. According to him, you can find the famous German Gründlichkeit in The South, with The North being the exact opposite. He used the Berlin airport as an example: "it was an endless failure". This was in 2011 or 2012. I wonder ho…

Thank you -- I don't speak German, and have just added Gründlichkeit to the list of German words I love. It joins Fingerspitzengefühl, Fremdschämen, Weltschmertz, Sitzpinkler, and Fernweh.

I really need to learn your language.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#150
post #56

This is what happens with many software projects following crazy customers and waterfall approaches. Clearly we never speak about 6 billion, but hey, shit happens...

Can you develop a big infrastructure project using agile methodologies?

Yes, absolutely - you would end up adapting them to the point that they were quite unlike building agile software, but that's built into agile.

I suspect that waterfall properly applied would have worked though. This sounds like a failure to nail down the requirements early, combined with a methodology that assumed the requirements would be nailed down early.

Post reply on HN