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Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

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Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#41

Post by univerio »

fcbrooklyn wrote: post #33

Actually, I think in this case the only rational choice is to ask for the 6 points. One of two things will happen: 1) Less than 10% will follow suit, in which case you'll get a 6 point boost, and you'll have secured an advantage over 90% of your classmates. 2) More than 10% will follow suit, and noone will get anything, in which case you will have no advantage over your classmates, and neither will any classmate have…

It depends on whether you consider the points valuable per se, or in relation to other people's grades. If you choose two points and < 10% of the class choose 6, you are still better off than you were before, if the points have intrinsic value. The article says that the class is not curved, meaning 2 points for you is a better grade, regardless of what others get.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#42

Post by hwita »

Sure, the course grades are not curved, but the students are definitely competing academically, especially those in the same class. There's class rank, honors status, merit scholarships, internships, job opportunities, etc., that are technically at stake. It makes sense to choose 6 every time.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#43

Post by ryan-c »

jedmeyers wrote: post #27

Get together, auction the 6 point slots. Then, depending on whether it works or not, either evenly distribute proceeds to everyone or return the money to the auction winners.

Or more generally allocate the 6 point slots in advance - how they're allocated doesn't really matter. The point is that everyone knows that if they are supposed to choose 2 points and instead choose 6, nobody gets anything. Someone still might blow it for everyone out of spite, though.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#44

Post by porter »

fcbrooklyn wrote: post #33

Actually, I think in this case the only rational choice is to ask for the 6 points. One of two things will happen: 1) Less than 10% will follow suit, in which case you'll get a 6 point boost, and you'll have secured an advantage over 90% of your classmates. 2) More than 10% will follow suit, and noone will get anything, in which case you will have no advantage over your classmates, and neither will any classmate have…

This is the rational choice in isolation. But collectively there is a better solution. The problem is that there's always the (rational) incentive to defect from the coordinated outcome, because as you point out, it's better for you...if you're the only one who defects.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#45

Post by [deleted] »

protomyth wrote: post #20
dogecoinbase wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to respond to the GP that you'd likely have a spoiler who would either be upset at not getting the six points and so secretly blow it up, or demand to be one of the six-pointers by publicly threatening to do so, but if there's money involved than that "likely" turns into a "definitely".

I don't think you would have a spoiler, or someone who pulls the demand. I think the money would actually stop that pretty quickly because of the peer pressure ramifications from the others in the class. So, a 20 person class has 2 6pt slots. You take the bids and collect and hold the money. Grades are announced and then you hand out the money or give it back to the original bidders in case of betrayal. The spoiler i…

[deleted]

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#46

Post by tnorthcutt »

fcbrooklyn wrote: post #33

Actually, I think in this case the only rational choice is to ask for the 6 points. One of two things will happen: 1) Less than 10% will follow suit, in which case you'll get a 6 point boost, and you'll have secured an advantage over 90% of your classmates. 2) More than 10% will follow suit, and noone will get anything, in which case you will have no advantage over your classmates, and neither will any classmate have…

All selections are anonymous, and the course grades are not curved.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#47

Post by notahacker »

sosuke wrote: post #21

But the challenge doesn't make sense, there isn't much risk, no fear of being known. Economic studies have covered this before, would you rather make $50k where everyone else makes $75k? or make $40k where everyone else makes $30k and people pick the latter because they want to have more than their peers. Everyone getting the same points doesn't change anything relative to those around me. In a paper score, assuming…

To pick up on the point about positional goods, everyone failing the class actually improves the ranking of [up to] half the classmates. If the points count towards some total score and there's some kind of calculation to normalize grades across the student population, everyone failing the class might actually bump up the overall grades of some of the weaker students in that class. Conversely, in this situation nobody benefits from everyone being awarded two additional points.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#48

Post by bduerst »

fcbrooklyn wrote: post #33

Actually, I think in this case the only rational choice is to ask for the 6 points. One of two things will happen: 1) Less than 10% will follow suit, in which case you'll get a 6 point boost, and you'll have secured an advantage over 90% of your classmates. 2) More than 10% will follow suit, and noone will get anything, in which case you will have no advantage over your classmates, and neither will any classmate have…

From the article, the class isn't graded on a curve so your assumption that 2 points is worthless doesn't apply.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#49

Post by 6d0debc071 »

moistgorilla wrote: post #17
justonepost wrote: post #2

Don't the students just get together and do a lottery? And in RL tragedy of commons, it's rarely anonymous.

And then one person says that they chose 6 points and haven't won it via lottery. The other students can't retaliate because the only way to get back at her would be to take away points from the entire group

They can retaliate, there's simply a cost associated. That's one of the reasons this is a poor exercise: In iterative games it's often worth making sure people know that certain kinds of behaviour don't work - even where you have to harm yourself in order to do so. Otherwise you'll always be held hostage by those willing to move the costs closest in time.

I suspect this is why hatred and resentment are part of our make up.

Re: Why I give my students a ‘tragedy of the commons’ extra credit challenge

#50

Post by protomyth »

[deleted] wrote: post #45
protomyth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you would have a spoiler, or someone who pulls the demand. I think the money would actually stop that pretty quickly because of the peer pressure ramifications from the others in the class. So, a 20 person class has 2 6pt slots. You take the bids and collect and hold the money. Grades are announced and then you hand out the money or give it back to the original bidders in case of betrayal. The spoiler i…

[deleted]

Well, if you instantly want to alienate the rest of the class and have no more classes with them or social events in common, then it might work. I would expect the rest of the class to all put 6pts down to deny them their "victory".

Its not often someone makes a public declaration that they desire to remove themselves from their peers. Good to know for the rest of the students on any assigned group projects.

[edit: dammit parent had a valid point - ah shucks]

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