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The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#181

Post by panzagl »

ken-far wrote: post #136
pmorici wrote: post #30

I think this article perhaps misses the real story. That being, office parks first built in 25+ years ago are reaching an age where their long term leases are expiring and they need to be renovated for the first time since being constructed to attract new tenants. While it makes sense to renovate an old factory and turn it into trendy office space with exposed brick and vintage architectural details from decades past…

I don't think so. This quote is key: “I now say that brainy youngsters are trending urban and urbane, away from your grandfather’s office parks.” Real estate analysis is showing that for the first time since it's been measuring more people are looking for housing in denser, more urban environments than in the traditional suburbs. An enormous number of people, especially young people, are looking to avoid spending the…

People follow the jobs, jobs don't follow people. A more likely scenario is that those jobs are just gone, not that they moved downtown to catch the special snowflakes. Or downtown addresses have replaced campuses whenever executives get together to dick wave.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#182

Post by s73v3r »

rhino369 wrote: post #79
macNchz wrote: post #23

My girlfriend worked for a 'beltway bandit' in Rockville Maryland for a while after college, exactly in the midst of the office parks described in this article. Everything about the environment of metro-DC suburban Maryland was absolutely repellent to me. Miles and miles of office parks, housing developments and strip malls, over and over and over. I couldn't stand the idea of having a daily routine of sitting in 8 l…

The problem in Maryland is that the urban office spaces in DC are essentially just big ass office parks. Just a bunch of ugly ass 12 story, monstrosities. I guess you get better lunch options. But personally I'd rather live in a cool place and commute to some boring ass office park. That said--the cool areas in DC are pretty small and expensive. The average worker can't afford that with a family.

I want both. I want to live and work in a cool place. Especially if it means I don't have to commute.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#183

Post by ectoplasm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #174
ssalazar wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y Combinator embodies the very definition of capitalism, and they host this site. While the community seems more diverse than that, its fair to say there is a capitalist bent.

> Y Combinator embodies the very definition of capitalism Y Combinator also donates to efficient non-profits in the tech space, no strings attached. That's not traditionally capitalistic.

Philanthropy is a lot harder without capitalism. "I should be the one who decides where the money I worked so hard to make gets donated." Besides, it's good advertising.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#184

Post by LordKano »

bronson wrote: post #165
LordKano wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom isn't the word that I would associate with being bound by train schedules and routes. Old cities, like NYC or London were established before the existence of the automobile. It makes sense that they were designed to move large numbers of people without automobiles. I don't live near such a city. The geography of my area prevents the kind of mass transit system that exists in NYC.

Would you rather be bound by rush hour, car accidents, and highway routes? No matter what you choose, you're bound by something.

Agreed, it's a trade off.

Here, yes. I prefer those things over the list of things that I mentioned previously.

I have arranged my work schedule to miss the worst of both inbound and outbound rush hour.

When I'm outside of my regular work hours, on evenings and weekends, there is much more freedom in driving one's self as opposed to waiting for public transportation.

For those of us who are so inclined, public transportation is still an option.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#185

Post by acomjean »

Apocryphon wrote: post #142
pmorici wrote: post #30

I think this article perhaps misses the real story. That being, office parks first built in 25+ years ago are reaching an age where their long term leases are expiring and they need to be renovated for the first time since being constructed to attract new tenants. While it makes sense to renovate an old factory and turn it into trendy office space with exposed brick and vintage architectural details from decades past…

Could they be converted into cheap housing?

I've seen one building like this in watertown ma. I think it was converted during a downturn. I used to walk by it, "riverbank lofts"

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.368276,-71.198303,3a,90y,169...

But while it could be done, most offices don't have the insides separated out (wiring,plumbing) installed and non-opening windows. And zoning.

It can be done, but it might not end up being cheap.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#186

Post by cyco »

sosuke wrote: post #175
enjo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that for most, living in a suburb is in fact the worst of both worlds. You are neither rural nor city. You have none of the benefits and many of the drawbacks. For me my decision to live in the city is one of safety (driving cars is dangerous) and time. When I lived in the burbs I spent something like 30-40 full days a year sitting in my car. That's 10% of each year in my car. That's just not a trade I'm wi…

Funny you mention safety in the city, I often hear about moving to the burbs for safe neighborhoods with sidewalks.

My suburban neighborhood growing up did not have sidewalks; not sure if that was unusual. Overall it's my impression that urban areas are much more walkable/bikeable than suburban ones. At the very least, it's difficult to leave or enter individual subdivisions in the suburbs on foot (by design).

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#187

Post by riskable »

Apocryphon wrote: post #142
pmorici wrote: post #30

I think this article perhaps misses the real story. That being, office parks first built in 25+ years ago are reaching an age where their long term leases are expiring and they need to be renovated for the first time since being constructed to attract new tenants. While it makes sense to renovate an old factory and turn it into trendy office space with exposed brick and vintage architectural details from decades past…

Could they be converted into cheap housing?

This is not usually possible because of the cost to run plumbing. You have to gut the entire facility in order to put kitchens and bathrooms in every apartment and it just isn't (usually) cost effective.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#188

Post by Domenic_S »

anthony_romeo wrote: post #153
bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

I wonder how much of this is related to the increase of two-income households coupled with overall wage stagnation? I mean, if a family only has one breadwinner, and work is in the suburbs, it becomes trivial to find a location close to work. But it's harder for a family to live on one income now. If both spouses want to work or need to work to get by (and I'm not talking about a small part-time job on the side), it…

Underrated comment right here.

It should come as no surprise that it takes two solid incomes in the Bay Area to buy housing close to work, because that's what the market supports. Families didn't become "better off" when two incomes became the norm -- everything just got more expensive.

I think this is one of the nasty secrets why remote work and public transit hasn't taken off like it should; who would support the crazy real estate prices if people could (more easily) choose where they live?

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#189

Post by lambdasquirrel »

bluthru wrote: post #150
enjo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's hard to see, but these things have a way of coming back around. In 50-60 years the office parks that still exist might very well be where all the hip YC startups of 2066 want to be.

The buildings weren't built robustly enough for that. They're cheap crap and often have horrible lighting and energy efficiency. (Not to mention that if you must drive to it, it's inherently bad for the environment.) Also, no quality lunch spots nearby. You're probably limited to things like Applebee's and Subway.

Most of them will probably go away, but I wouldn't scratch them off. Things have an uncanny way of coming back when people stop trying to make something of them, when they become abandoned and creative folks are allowed to do as they wish to the structure.

No one wants to work in these builds right now because (as you pointed out), e.g. horrible lighting and ambiance. But if you came back to it, and knocked some holes in the roof (easy to do, because, again, they're cheap crap), then suddenly, it could actually turn into the sort of dorm that we'd actually wanted to be in.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#190

Post by johnward »

exstudent2 wrote: post #76
johnward wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increase telecommuting would solve a lot of the transportation problems. I've been full-time remote for awhile now. I turned down an offer that was almost double my current salary because I don't want to commute.

Agree, I'm the same way. I insist on being paid the same as people who live in the city though. My value doesn't change just because I live in a cheaper place.

I believe I'm paid a similar rate to other people in my city but I also believe I'm still underpaid. The market for my specific skills is starting to open up though and there is much more demand than there is supply of workers right now. I don't like when companies think they can get away with 1/2 salary for an expert just because it's a remote position.
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