The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town • Hacker News Board

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#141

Post by mixmastamyk » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:40 PM UTC

LordKano wrote: post #86

Tiktaalik wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure anyone really loves suburbia, but once in place, car oriented development has a way of being self sustaining. This "Cycle of automobile dependency" image shows it pretty well. http://imgur.com/Y9vxbNN Only recently, with huge effort and many setbacks, are we starting to see cities break out of car oriented development and this endless suburban sprawl creating loop. I'm a bit concerned that the advent of…

I'm not sure anyone really loves suburbia I would guess that has a lot to do with how one defines the term. I love living outside of the city. I wouldn't have it any other way. When I'm ready to retire, I plan to move even further away from the city. I grew up in the suburbs. I am raising my children in the suburbs. I detest going into the city. The traffic, the parking, the population density and the crammed nature…

> The traffic, the parking,

That's the result of a poorly planned city, not intrinsic to cities. If you've been to Europe, or even NYC, you might have experienced the freedom of jumping on a train to downtown and back, with enough exercise to keep you healthy.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#142

Post by Apocryphon » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:42 PM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #30

I think this article perhaps misses the real story. That being, office parks first built in 25+ years ago are reaching an age where their long term leases are expiring and they need to be renovated for the first time since being constructed to attract new tenants. While it makes sense to renovate an old factory and turn it into trendy office space with exposed brick and vintage architectural details from decades past…

Could they be converted into cheap housing?

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#143

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:43 PM UTC

astrocyte wrote: post #56

untog wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of California, I think of the beautiful outdoors and geography... Which an office park isn't, either. Of course the outdoors and mountains are very attractive but they're not a viable workplace. While many of your city complaints are valid, it's not as if the suburbs solves all of them. "There is no parking available for friends visiting me." Sure, and if you live in the suburbs there is plenty of parkin…

Taking the bay area as an example, living further towards south bay allows me to shoot out to the outdoors much quicker than being in the city. Office park? When I'm at work, I want to be focused on my work .. Not distracted by the noise of a city. As for the city, when I want to go there and enjoy something in particular, that's what I do. You can list off every music venue, club, restaurant, cultural event, park ev…

[deleted]

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#144

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:44 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #66

dade_ wrote: post #5

Thomas Jefferson is to blame and not one mention of taxes? I would be really surprised that some research wouldn't find that many of these office parks are built outside of the borders of major cities to avoid paying taxes, or were provided incentives by neighbouring municipalities to build further out and pay lower tax. The lower cost is attractive and allows the company to operate in a big shiny building that immed…

Nobody cares about free parking unless they have a car. Nobody cares about having a 'big shiny building' as credibility often comes from having things like a solid product, or capital in the bank. The 1960s are over. Nobody cares about your crappy office tower in the middle of nowhere. The ones that did are retired.

However, fitting the amount of people you need when you're successful is a problem with town offices (especially in Europe)

Suburban office parks may have a lot of issues but it's where you can have lots of space for cheap (and sometimes you need this)

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#145

Post by normloman » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:48 PM UTC

astrocyte wrote: post #34

All of this works in cycles. There once was a time when people were flocking to the suburbs. Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass when people (a generation maybe) comes to understand the little value obtained from all the chaos and activity. What are people chasing? Technology has made it easier to be in touch and socialize w/ people beyond physical geography. Transportation is getting bette…

This is not a cycle. What happened to urban development in the mid 20th century was a historical anomaly. People have always lived closely. Look at any historic town; they were designed for walking. And if you lived outside of a town or city, it was because you farmed the land.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#146

Post by mgolawala » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:50 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #138

stephancoral wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they will bulldoze them and build parks in their place. I can dream.

I too hope for that future. Megacities for some, sustainable homes for others, the rest of the world returned to the wild.

Unfortunately, I think the more realistic outcome would be that the rest of the world would be turned into farmland or pastureland.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#147

Post by debacle » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:54 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

It used to be, the further you lived from the city, the better off you were. Mostly because the city had scary dark skinned people, little space, and pollution.

Now, while I'm definitely a suburbanite, I'd take the 15 minute commute any day over having extra lawn to mow.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#148

Post by astrodust » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:57 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #144

astrodust wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares about free parking unless they have a car. Nobody cares about having a 'big shiny building' as credibility often comes from having things like a solid product, or capital in the bank. The 1960s are over. Nobody cares about your crappy office tower in the middle of nowhere. The ones that did are retired.

However, fitting the amount of people you need when you're successful is a problem with town offices (especially in Europe) Suburban office parks may have a lot of issues but it's where you can have lots of space for cheap (and sometimes you need this)

I think a lot of people would rather work in a busy, noisy coffee shop than commute to or live in the suburbs to enjoy lots of cheap office space.

The entire social structure that produced these towers, a well-paid, conservative, culturally unambitious middle class, is imploding.

Now you have Millenials who value living and working closer to interesting coffee shops, restaurants, clubs, and bars than living in Nowhereville which has a Denny's, a Subway and a Dunkin Donuts as the only options. Plus they're so deep in student debt that buying a suburban house or leasing a car is not an option. They're stuck living in a cheap apartment that's typically in an urban area and living a more thrifty lifestyle. What little money they have goes towards entertainment and social activities.

I'd rather work in a condemned office in the right location than some suburban hellhole where I had to drive a minimum of a half hour to and from work. At least the office in the right location could be renovated and spruced up. The suburban office will always be in the wrong spot.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#149

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:58 PM UTC

mgolawala wrote: post #146

toomuchtodo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too hope for that future. Megacities for some, sustainable homes for others, the rest of the world returned to the wild.

Unfortunately, I think the more realistic outcome would be that the rest of the world would be turned into farmland or pastureland.

Possibly. We're already providing more than enough food in the US with existing farmland (although the problem is it isn't distributed properly to people who need said food). Pastureland could be reduced with meat grown in vats instead of raised on farms (or people simply shifting from a meat-heavy diet).

The population trajectory appears to be ballistic, with us hitting the apex in the next 5-15 years (educated women have less children and prolong having children until later in life; almost all first world countries are already below replacement rate, India and China won't be far behind).

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#150

Post by bluthru » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 7:03 PM UTC

enjo wrote: post #118

pmorici wrote: post #30

I think this article perhaps misses the real story. That being, office parks first built in 25+ years ago are reaching an age where their long term leases are expiring and they need to be renovated for the first time since being constructed to attract new tenants. While it makes sense to renovate an old factory and turn it into trendy office space with exposed brick and vintage architectural details from decades past…

Maybe it's hard to see, but these things have a way of coming back around. In 50-60 years the office parks that still exist might very well be where all the hip YC startups of 2066 want to be.

The buildings weren't built robustly enough for that. They're cheap crap and often have horrible lighting and energy efficiency. (Not to mention that if you must drive to it, it's inherently bad for the environment.)

Also, no quality lunch spots nearby. You're probably limited to things like Applebee's and Subway.