The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town • Hacker News Board

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#121

Post by enjo » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:13 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

For a whole bunch of suburbanites of those early years (50's-70's) the "happiness" they derived came primarily from not having to send their children to integrated schools.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#122

Post by ryandrake » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:13 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #98

joshyeager wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love suburbia. Living in a city is stressful and crowded. I'd like to live in a rural environment, but then I'd have to drive a very long way to get to work, stores, and entertainment. Living in a quiet suburb gives me the best of both worlds. It's only a 10 minute drive to the downtown library, good restaurants, and other fun stuff. Since I picked a job that's located near my suburb, my commute is also short and a…

You're doing it right by living close to your work. Suburbs work well when they're really just small complete cities. Nothing wrong with that. What I was thinking when I when I wrote "I'm not sure anyone loves suburbia" was that I'm not sure anyone loves that big suburban commute to the city. If that's eliminated, or mitigated by excellent transit connections (ie. pre-automobile street car suburbs), then a lot of neg…

One of the chief advantages of suburban life is cost. I don't like suburbia, but I deal with it because I'm not rich enough to live close to work. Sure, I have the additional cost of maintaining and fueling a vehicle[1], and the stress of a 2+ hour commute each way, but that's far outweighed by housing being 3X cheaper, and the decent public schools (I don't have to pay for private schooling for the kid).

1: which is, really, not THAT much more in terms of cost per mile than using public transportation

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#123

Post by jonknee » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:15 PM UTC

hodwik wrote: post #109

jonknee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that explain that these low tax buildings are now being left empty in favor of options in the higher tax cities? If they were so desirable they wouldn't be sitting empty.

The beltway has a vacancy rate of 17.1%, within the city it's 12.3%. Not that different, especially when you consider that DC has an artificially low vacancy rate due to height restrictions. And anyway, Montgomery County, MD, is an unusual case. There was a lot of speculative building going on there due to rumors that the city of DC was going to put in a subway line through the country (going back to 2003). That drea…

I would call a 40% difference in vacancy quite significant.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#124

Post by Apocryphon » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:15 PM UTC

forthwall wrote: post #15

Even Silicon Valley has these abandoned SOPs, just look at South San Jose. Most of these offices have been vacant for years.

After the IBM factory in south SJ closed down, the whole area just seems so sleepy, new shopping complex or not (http://preservation.org/projects/ibm25/ibm25_background.html).

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#125

Post by rhino369 » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

matthewmcg wrote: post #113

rhino369 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the parts of DC that you can safely, raise a family in are either: 1) Really expensive 2) Essentially suburban anyway. Most of NW is suburban. 3) both 1 & 2 Another cause is that until 10 years ago most of the city was considered to be too unsafe. Gentrification has gone into overdrive and has greatly expanded the area middle class and UMC people will live. But even then a lot of that area is still pretty cra…

Safety is relative. Consider that by living in a walkable area avoiding driving, you may be reducing your risk of being one of the ~40 automobile-related deaths a year in the DC region. (Source: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6128a2.htm ) Also, by including walking in your commute, you are reducing your risk of death from obesity and diabetes, among other factors. (Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/…

You don't have to just worry about murder. You have to worry about rapes, muggings, and property crime. Nobody wants to live in a place where you have to "watch out" or stay inside at night.

Luckily DC has some pretty urban suburbs like Arlington and Alexandia. They are more urban than most of the district. I don't have to worry about my car getting broken into and I can take the blueline to work.

I'd prefer to live in Georgetown or DuPont but that stuff is insanely priced.

What NOVA and Maryland need are more and better commuter rails to DC. The VRE is awful.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#126

Post by enjo » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:17 PM UTC

joshyeager wrote: post #87

Tiktaalik wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure anyone really loves suburbia, but once in place, car oriented development has a way of being self sustaining. This "Cycle of automobile dependency" image shows it pretty well. http://imgur.com/Y9vxbNN Only recently, with huge effort and many setbacks, are we starting to see cities break out of car oriented development and this endless suburban sprawl creating loop. I'm a bit concerned that the advent of…

I love suburbia. Living in a city is stressful and crowded. I'd like to live in a rural environment, but then I'd have to drive a very long way to get to work, stores, and entertainment. Living in a quiet suburb gives me the best of both worlds. It's only a 10 minute drive to the downtown library, good restaurants, and other fun stuff. Since I picked a job that's located near my suburb, my commute is also short and a…

I'd argue that for most, living in a suburb is in fact the worst of both worlds. You are neither rural nor city. You have none of the benefits and many of the drawbacks.

For me my decision to live in the city is one of safety (driving cars is dangerous) and time. When I lived in the burbs I spent something like 30-40 full days a year sitting in my car. That's 10% of each year in my car. That's just not a trade I'm willing to make anymore.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#127

Post by ssalazar » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:18 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #102

davidw wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're capitalists here, mostly, so people don't mind. People who are just here to spam get turfed out pretty quickly. I don't recommend stuff that I don't think is pertinent to a conversation.

> We're capitalists here, mostly, so people don't mind. I have never thought [citation required] was more necessary than with this comment. We're technology professionals or enthusiasts primarily here.

Y Combinator embodies the very definition of capitalism, and they host this site. While the community seems more diverse than that, its fair to say there is a capitalist bent.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#128

Post by enjo » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

matthewmcg wrote: post #113

rhino369 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the parts of DC that you can safely, raise a family in are either: 1) Really expensive 2) Essentially suburban anyway. Most of NW is suburban. 3) both 1 & 2 Another cause is that until 10 years ago most of the city was considered to be too unsafe. Gentrification has gone into overdrive and has greatly expanded the area middle class and UMC people will live. But even then a lot of that area is still pretty cra…

Safety is relative. Consider that by living in a walkable area avoiding driving, you may be reducing your risk of being one of the ~40 automobile-related deaths a year in the DC region. (Source: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6128a2.htm ) Also, by including walking in your commute, you are reducing your risk of death from obesity and diabetes, among other factors. (Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/…

Some quick googling for supporting studies:

http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2002/lucy-april-30-2...

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#129

Post by acveilleux » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

xigency wrote: post #62

acveilleux wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to get there. Which means jumping in a car and driving on the freeway for a while. I really can't see myself doing that ever. My employer ran out of space in our downtown office and we bought a building out in a suburban area and I flat out told my boss that I'll quit if forced to move there. The quality of life issue for me would've been overwhelming. An extra 2 hours of commute every day so my employer can…

Where do you live?

Now? I remote work, then, Montreal (hochelaga to be precise.)

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#130

Post by Animats » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 6:23 PM UTC

US manufacturing employment peaked in 1977. When do we hit "peak office"? With all this IT technology, office employment ought to start declining at some point.