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Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

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Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#51

Post by jlewallen »

johnbenwoo wrote: post #42
throwaway9er wrote: post #32

As a founder who struggles with severe depression, one of the few bits of advice that I remember when personally in a dark place is from a physician that had met with thousands of suicidal patients. He said: "I've never had a patient who survived (suicidal thinking) and later wished that they had killed themselves." Sorry I couldn't find the quote and may be paraphrasing a bit, I share this because this personal mant…

Likewise, I read a news story (long time ago, source forgotten) that interviewed several people who had survived jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge. The reporter asked each one what thoughts went through their head after jumping before hitting the water. It wasn't relief or clarity - almost unanimously, it was "What have I done?!?" and immediate regret.

I was reminded of the same thing and got a few sentences into my reply before noticing yours. Here's a link to a study I had turned up as well:

http://seattlefriends.org/files/seiden_study.pdf

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#52

Post by jessaustin »

stephengillie wrote: post #50
DanBC wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between "therapy" and "counselling". It's a shame that the difference isn't clear enough.

It's like the difference between "coding" and "programming"?

IOW, a totally arbitrary idiosyncratic theory invented on the spot by whomever happens to be talking about it?

[EDIT: referring more to parent than grandparent, although the case for the counselor/therapist divide is not obvious either]

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#53

Post by 20years »

Cshelton wrote: post #45
20years wrote: post #28

"Of the 242 entrepreneurs he surveyed, 49% reported having a mental-health condition" Wow! This is high. I wish the startup community pushed the importance of balance more. Instead it sometimes feels like a race to the bottom.

I mean, the going stigma out there is, sorry Cuban, "You have to work 24/7/365, because business is a sport and there is always someone looking to kick your ass". The problem with this is we are human. We get stressed, we get depressed, we get overly confidant and then utterly destroyed when something does not work out that you've put everything into. The stigma of having to work 24/7/365 is just a saying. Balance of…

This ^ 100% agree!

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#54

Post by melling »

alphanumeric0 wrote: post #16

Her upbringing likely was a factor as well as the stress of startup life. ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169057/Faigy-Mayer-... ) This hits close to home, being a 30-something software developer, and having grown up in a very religious, anti-intellectual household. Very sad, and preventable.

I talked to her a few times. The first time I met her I asked her to check out my app and give me her thoughts. A few days later she took the time to email me a couple of ideas. I thought I saw her recently as I was rushing home after a recent Meetup. Now I wish I'd stopped to say hi.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#55

Post by alphanumeric0 »

personlurking wrote: post #20
alphanumeric0 wrote: post #16

Her upbringing likely was a factor as well as the stress of startup life. ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169057/Faigy-Mayer-... ) This hits close to home, being a 30-something software developer, and having grown up in a very religious, anti-intellectual household. Very sad, and preventable.

The article mentioned a religious documentary she was interviewed for. Here is that interview. https://youtu.be/TjDzR5plpS4?t=15m52s

Thanks for that. I heard about the documentary months ago and was meaning to watch it.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#56

Post by eigenvalue »

This is so upsetting. After reading a few articles, I don't get the sense that this was about her startup (it doesn't seem like the company ever had any real revenues). She was apparently very depressed and struggling financially, coming to the end of her lease on her apartment with no place to go, and presumably unable to come to her family for help because of their disapproval of her secular lifestyle. It could easily have been a spontaneous decision on the roof that she didn't plan out or even really think about. It's just a shame that her close friends didn't realize how bad things had gotten and done more to help her (e.g., give/lend her money, offer a place to crash, a job offer, etc.) Often the only thing that stops people from suicide is the thought of the damage it would do to their parents and siblings; if your relationship with your family is in shambles, this sort of thing becomes less unthinkable.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#57

Post by sarwechshar »

exelius wrote: post #9
chillingeffect wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Also, it's not even just about money, it's about success and recognition and accepting yourself, win or fail.

Suicide is also about more than just a failed startup. You don't kill yourself because your company failed; there were likely other issues such as depression that she was unable to overcome, though a struggling business doesn't help. If you're depressed, accepting yourself is hard even if you're winning.

I feel terrible for her family as well, perhaps not even knowing exactly what led her to do this (in which case some people may end up feeling guilty).

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#58

Post by DanBC »

jessaustin wrote: post #52
stephengillie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like the difference between "coding" and "programming"?

IOW, a totally arbitrary idiosyncratic theory invented on the spot by whomever happens to be talking about it? [EDIT: referring more to parent than grandparent, although the case for the counselor/therapist divide is not obvious either]

Wait what.

Counseling is mostly unregulated with practioners who have very little training. There's not much evidence base and what evidence there is is either weak, or suggests not to use counselling.

Modern (and I recognise some terrible practice used to happen) tries to have regulation through professional registration and protected names; and tries to work to an evidence based model.

I agree that therapy as evidence based treatment is fairly new and there there are still many terrible therapists.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#59

Post by brerlapn »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #36
curiousjorge wrote: post #25

wtf is going on? seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves? Why is it that they can't stop and walk away when what you are doing is not making you happy? Why do you put someone who is well off enough to throw you some pocket change above your own livelihood and your life? I just don't get it. >After she jumped, some customers continued to drink at the swanky bar ugh.

>seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves? If I may be a politicizing dick, severe inequality means that seemingly small failures or successes can have massive, oversized influence on the course of someone's life, and also means that we socialize people, from youth, to take each possible failure or success that much more seriously , as that much more determining of their overall life course and me…

You're making a fair point--and feeling like you have everything on the line at every step is most likely going to ramp up someone's level of anxiety and stress with all the negative impacts that entails. However, I also think there is a counterbalancing point that framing life as an all-encompassing economic gamble actually reinforces that anxiety and stress by making it seem like economics is the whole of existence--and for folks who are feeling overwhelmed by feeling like their failure or success hangs in the balance it is likely to drown out a more healthy counter-narrative which is that you're probably not "ruined" if you fail. It'll suck (believe me I'm still paying shitloads of student loans for a career I quit almost a decade ago), but you can still have friends and community and value things in life that aren't work or career. People who are at the point of attempting suicide have drowned out all those positives with a tunnel vision on the pressure of success/failure that is blinding them to other possibilities (see comments above about people who survived jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge).

So yeah, the economics of operating without the feeling of a safety net sucks, but people who are starting to crumble under that safety net need to hear that the safety net isn't just their runway, it's also all the family and friends and life that they have or can build. Unfortunately in this particular case it sounds like she was in a transition and didn't quite have those solidly in place yet.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#60

Post by npizzolato »

johnbenwoo wrote: post #42
throwaway9er wrote: post #32

As a founder who struggles with severe depression, one of the few bits of advice that I remember when personally in a dark place is from a physician that had met with thousands of suicidal patients. He said: "I've never had a patient who survived (suicidal thinking) and later wished that they had killed themselves." Sorry I couldn't find the quote and may be paraphrasing a bit, I share this because this personal mant…

Likewise, I read a news story (long time ago, source forgotten) that interviewed several people who had survived jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge. The reporter asked each one what thoughts went through their head after jumping before hitting the water. It wasn't relief or clarity - almost unanimously, it was "What have I done?!?" and immediate regret.

Here's the article in question.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/10/13/jumpers

Another powerful quote: "The guy was in his thirties, lived alone, pretty bare apartment. He’d written a note and left it on his bureau. It said, ‘I’m going to walk to the bridge. If one person smiles at me on the way, I will not jump.’"

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