The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town • Hacker News Board

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#61

Post by sosborn » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:06 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #35

astrocyte wrote: post #34

All of this works in cycles. There once was a time when people were flocking to the suburbs. Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass when people (a generation maybe) comes to understand the little value obtained from all the chaos and activity. What are people chasing? Technology has made it easier to be in touch and socialize w/ people beyond physical geography. Transportation is getting bette…

When I think of California, I think of the beautiful outdoors and geography... Which an office park isn't, either. Of course the outdoors and mountains are very attractive but they're not a viable workplace. While many of your city complaints are valid, it's not as if the suburbs solves all of them. "There is no parking available for friends visiting me." Sure, and if you live in the suburbs there is plenty of parkin…

>Sure, and if you live in the suburbs there is plenty of parking but nothing to do.

It all depends on the person. When I was younger I enjoyed city life, but now that I am older and have kids I prefer hanging out with them at the park near my suburban dwelling.

The city offers certain people plenty to do, and the suburbs offers other people plenty to do. Finding out which one appeals to you and getting there is one of the tricks to enjoying life.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#62

Post by xigency » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

acveilleux wrote: post #43

20years wrote: post #16

I would love to see stats on where these companies are moving to. Are many of them transitioning into remote teams? Did some go out of business? Are they moving elsewhere? Does anyone have stats on this? New business formations are on the decline ( http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/009854.html ) and more businesses are closing shop each year than are forming ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/0…

You have to get there. Which means jumping in a car and driving on the freeway for a while. I really can't see myself doing that ever. My employer ran out of space in our downtown office and we bought a building out in a suburban area and I flat out told my boss that I'll quit if forced to move there. The quality of life issue for me would've been overwhelming. An extra 2 hours of commute every day so my employer can…

Where do you live?

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#63

Post by Tiktaalik » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

I'm curious amongst urbanite hackers here:

How many would turn down a job at Facebook, Google, Apple or any other company primarily due to their suburban office park nature?

Could you see yourself choosing a poorer quality job from an urban company over a better suburban company?

Right now I'm a 15 minute bike ride away from my downtown employer. It'd be pretty hard to convince me to give that up. I've done a 30 minute bus commute to the suburbs and that wasn't very fun. I can't imagine doing a 1 hour plus commute.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#64

Post by astrocyte » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:08 PM UTC

ddispaltro wrote: post #52

astrocyte wrote: post #34

All of this works in cycles. There once was a time when people were flocking to the suburbs. Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass when people (a generation maybe) comes to understand the little value obtained from all the chaos and activity. What are people chasing? Technology has made it easier to be in touch and socialize w/ people beyond physical geography. Transportation is getting bette…

Side note, living in a concentrated city is better for the environment since there's less human sprawl.

Actually it isn't (several studies have highlighted this). The reason why a lot of cities aren't better for the environment is that the insane cost force many people out to the cities edge who then have to commute in... negating a good deal of the concentration benefits.

Further, cities can wreak havoc on health due to the concentration of pollution, noise, etc ... Increase mental health issues due to stress/etc.

Human beings weren't meant to be crammed into concrete jungles in shoe boxes filled with noise and chaos.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#65

Post by at-fates-hands » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:08 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #40

dade_ wrote: post #5

Thomas Jefferson is to blame and not one mention of taxes? I would be really surprised that some research wouldn't find that many of these office parks are built outside of the borders of major cities to avoid paying taxes, or were provided incentives by neighbouring municipalities to build further out and pay lower tax. The lower cost is attractive and allows the company to operate in a big shiny building that immed…

How does that explain that these low tax buildings are now being left empty in favor of options in the higher tax cities? If they were so desirable they wouldn't be sitting empty.

I would also add why big corporations are staring to build NEW multi-million dollar campuses instead of renovating a lot of these office parks.

I live in Minnesota and United Health Care has done both. they've bought newer buildings that were vacated and just built a huge (72 acres) campus on the outskirts of the city: http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/print-edition/2011/09/...

Cargill several years ago built a huge new campus at an abandoned Super Value production plant:

http://www.opus-group.com/OurWork/Excelsior-Crossings

Also, I've seen older 1970's corporate buildings demolished and there's an area in a nearby suburb where they're trying to rejuvenate the area where nearly all the buildings are empty with a $500 million project plan:

Demolition: http://hillcrestdevelopment.com/pentagon-park-south-tower-de...

Renovation of area buildings: http://hillcrestdevelopment.com/renovation/pentagon-park/

Redevelopment Plan: http://www.startribune.com/edina-aims-at-a-signature-project...

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#66

Post by astrodust » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:09 PM UTC

dade_ wrote: post #5

Thomas Jefferson is to blame and not one mention of taxes? I would be really surprised that some research wouldn't find that many of these office parks are built outside of the borders of major cities to avoid paying taxes, or were provided incentives by neighbouring municipalities to build further out and pay lower tax. The lower cost is attractive and allows the company to operate in a big shiny building that immed…

Nobody cares about free parking unless they have a car. Nobody cares about having a 'big shiny building' as credibility often comes from having things like a solid product, or capital in the bank.

The 1960s are over. Nobody cares about your crappy office tower in the middle of nowhere. The ones that did are retired.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#67

Post by johnward » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

exstudent2 wrote: post #55

skolor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've seen the reverse of this now. Everything I've seen has shown that newer generations are moving more into the cities, back to closer to their employers.

I wonder if increased urban demand pushing up housing costs in metro areas will eventually cause a reverse migration back to the suburbs (facilitated by telecommuting).

Increase telecommuting would solve a lot of the transportation problems. I've been full-time remote for awhile now. I turned down an offer that was almost double my current salary because I don't want to commute.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#68

Post by bunderbunder » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:11 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #53

bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

[deleted]

I think that is starting to happen.

That said, I think there's a possible silver lining to gentrification that needs to seriously be considered: There's a lot of evidence to suggest that mixing people of different socioeconomic backgrounds has a large positive impact on social mobility for the less wealthy people in that community. This in turn has a large positive impact on the community's long-term economic growth.

In light of that, I think we need to be very careful about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If gentrification takes the form of wholesale displacing entire communities then yes, that's a problem. But if things can be arranged such that wealthier folks moving back to the city leave their gated communities behind rather than bringing them along for the move, then the long-term outcome could be transformative.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#69

Post by bduerst » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:11 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

Isn't this one of the goals of self-driving cars?

Having vehicles that don't require human operation means that cars can spend less time in parking lots as depreciating assets and more time filling transportation demand. By reducing inefficiencies, it should free up traffic congestion and make it easier to commute to these office parks, right?

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#70

Post by jobu » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:12 PM UTC

exstudent2 wrote: post #55

skolor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've seen the reverse of this now. Everything I've seen has shown that newer generations are moving more into the cities, back to closer to their employers.

I wonder if increased urban demand pushing up housing costs in metro areas will eventually cause a reverse migration back to the suburbs (facilitated by telecommuting).

There's also increased demand for "walkable" neighborhoods in suburban areas. Higher density housing with grocery stores, doctor's offices, restaurants, and bars all in a single development.