The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town • Hacker News Board

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#51

Post by fluidcruft » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #40

dade_ wrote: post #5

Thomas Jefferson is to blame and not one mention of taxes? I would be really surprised that some research wouldn't find that many of these office parks are built outside of the borders of major cities to avoid paying taxes, or were provided incentives by neighbouring municipalities to build further out and pay lower tax. The lower cost is attractive and allows the company to operate in a big shiny building that immed…

How does that explain that these low tax buildings are now being left empty in favor of options in the higher tax cities? If they were so desirable they wouldn't be sitting empty.

There are a lot of empty old buildings downtown, too. I don't remember seeing any comparative data in the article beyond that employers seem to be reducing space/employee (they are of course also reducing the number of employees). Of course it makes sense to contract toward the center, that has nothing to do with preferences, it's just economic geography 101.

With respect to the particular building mentioned in the article, it is hardly surprising at all that the NIH is contracting its footprint given recent funding history.

Edit: As mentioned by another commenter, it turns out the NIH didn't move things downtown. Instead, it's just opened a brand new campus that's even further away.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#52

Post by ddispaltro » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

astrocyte wrote: post #34

All of this works in cycles. There once was a time when people were flocking to the suburbs. Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass when people (a generation maybe) comes to understand the little value obtained from all the chaos and activity. What are people chasing? Technology has made it easier to be in touch and socialize w/ people beyond physical geography. Transportation is getting bette…

Side note, living in a concentrated city is better for the environment since there's less human sprawl.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#53

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

[deleted]

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#54

Post by michaelochurch » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

The Car was supposed to kill The Landlord by increasing the supply of adequate housing and driving residential land prices near zero. It didn't work, for the reasons you described. First, driving itself is very expensive, especially if you include parking the damn thing. Second, the few suburbs that are desirable at all (near major cities, good public schools) are often similar in price to city housing-- and NIMBY laws keep housing scarce in them. Third, cars scale poorly (congestion). So none of that actually happened, and we're stuck with this ugly, polluting infrastructure.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#55

Post by exstudent2 » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

skolor wrote: post #37

bunderbunder wrote: post #26

I think suburbia might be a victim of its own success. As people moved out to more widely-dispersed communities, that caused commuting all the way downtown for work to be increasingly problematic. So of course that encouraged demand for business to also move out to the suburbs. Eventually things got so dispersed that people had to start driving everywhere. Roads got congested. It became increasingly common for people…

We've seen the reverse of this now. Everything I've seen has shown that newer generations are moving more into the cities, back to closer to their employers.

I wonder if increased urban demand pushing up housing costs in metro areas will eventually cause a reverse migration back to the suburbs (facilitated by telecommuting).

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#56

Post by astrocyte » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #35

astrocyte wrote: post #34

All of this works in cycles. There once was a time when people were flocking to the suburbs. Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass when people (a generation maybe) comes to understand the little value obtained from all the chaos and activity. What are people chasing? Technology has made it easier to be in touch and socialize w/ people beyond physical geography. Transportation is getting bette…

When I think of California, I think of the beautiful outdoors and geography... Which an office park isn't, either. Of course the outdoors and mountains are very attractive but they're not a viable workplace. While many of your city complaints are valid, it's not as if the suburbs solves all of them. "There is no parking available for friends visiting me." Sure, and if you live in the suburbs there is plenty of parkin…

Taking the bay area as an example, living further towards south bay allows me to shoot out to the outdoors much quicker than being in the city. Office park? When I'm at work, I want to be focused on my work .. Not distracted by the noise of a city.

As for the city, when I want to go there and enjoy something in particular, that's what I do. You can list off every music venue, club, restaurant, cultural event, park event in the city .. I've probably been to the majority of them. It's called getting off your bum, and going to where you want to be. I can jump on 280 and can get to many places in the city (40-45 min) a lot faster than my friends who live in it.

Weekend in the city? Jump on BART and go explore. Bike around the city? Jump on BART and bike around the city. Uber/public transportation are there for me just like it is for people in the city.

The thing is : When i want peace and quiet I can get it. When I want to focus in my own space, I can have it....

The noise/chaos is attractive when you're young and have not found your own sound. When you have, the city becomes a lot less attractive. More interestingly, the city doesn't necessarily help you find yourself any faster.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#57

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #38

pmorici wrote: post #30

I think this article perhaps misses the real story. That being, office parks first built in 25+ years ago are reaching an age where their long term leases are expiring and they need to be renovated for the first time since being constructed to attract new tenants. While it makes sense to renovate an old factory and turn it into trendy office space with exposed brick and vintage architectural details from decades past…

Except there aren't tenants to renovate for which is why they are sitting empty and not being renovated. The long term tenants don't want new paint and carpeting, they want to be in the city.

[deleted]

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#58

Post by happyscrappy » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

astrocyte wrote: post #34

All of this works in cycles. There once was a time when people were flocking to the suburbs. Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass when people (a generation maybe) comes to understand the little value obtained from all the chaos and activity. What are people chasing? Technology has made it easier to be in touch and socialize w/ people beyond physical geography. Transportation is getting bette…

>Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass

Yes, when you decide to have children.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#59

Post by vonmoltke » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

hiou wrote: post #49

pmorici wrote: post #30

I think this article perhaps misses the real story. That being, office parks first built in 25+ years ago are reaching an age where their long term leases are expiring and they need to be renovated for the first time since being constructed to attract new tenants. While it makes sense to renovate an old factory and turn it into trendy office space with exposed brick and vintage architectural details from decades past…

Exactly, I see this as the same situation as shopping centers and big box retailers. The cost of renovation etc, is not low enough compared to the cost of building a new building in a better location for the current times. On top of that, the DC metro area is becoming very public transit oriented. Most employers consider good access via public transit an important feature when looking for office space. Being in an ou…

> On top of that, the DC metro area is becoming very public transit oriented. Most employers consider good access via public transit an important feature when looking for office space.

While at the same time the Metro is going to hell.

Re: The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

#60

Post by dasmoth » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #35

astrocyte wrote: post #34

All of this works in cycles. There once was a time when people were flocking to the suburbs. Now, it is fashionable to live in the city. This too will pass when people (a generation maybe) comes to understand the little value obtained from all the chaos and activity. What are people chasing? Technology has made it easier to be in touch and socialize w/ people beyond physical geography. Transportation is getting bette…

When I think of California, I think of the beautiful outdoors and geography... Which an office park isn't, either. Of course the outdoors and mountains are very attractive but they're not a viable workplace. While many of your city complaints are valid, it's not as if the suburbs solves all of them. "There is no parking available for friends visiting me." Sure, and if you live in the suburbs there is plenty of parkin…

Of course the outdoors and mountains are very attractive but they're not a viable workplace. While many of your city complaints are valid, it's not as if the suburbs solves all of them.

Given all the technology that supports remote working, it's a terrible shame that we still take this for granted.