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Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

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Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#31

Post by rosser »

dragontamer wrote: post #29
mikeash wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point, exactly? That we blow police misbehavior out of proportion? That systematic racial discrimination is OK because black people are the ones committing crimes anyway?

Erm, no. He's making a pro-cop argument. You are the one bringing up the race card. The fact remains: cops (and cop supporters) are proud and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think if people portrayed the arguments and problems with cops in a way that cops (and cop supporters) can keep their pride... life is going to be a lot better. At the end of the day, Cops have more pride in their work than other government…

There's "taking pride in your work", and there's "the thin blue line". One of those things is healthy. The other is emphatically not.

It's left as an exercise for the reader to determine which is which.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#32

Post by dragontamer »

mikeash wrote: post #30
dragontamer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, no. He's making a pro-cop argument. You are the one bringing up the race card. The fact remains: cops (and cop supporters) are proud and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think if people portrayed the arguments and problems with cops in a way that cops (and cop supporters) can keep their pride... life is going to be a lot better. At the end of the day, Cops have more pride in their work than other government…

"You could look at my ticketing and arrests for the few months I've been on the job and say I do racial profiling cause most of them are [insert what you know it is] cause, from what I can tell, most of them do the things that get them tickets or arrested and put in jail." I am not the one who brought up race.

Point.

But in any case, Police pride is a real thing and you need to account for it in your arguments. Otherwise, actual police reform becomes impossible.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#33

Post by dragontamer »

rosser wrote: post #31
dragontamer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, no. He's making a pro-cop argument. You are the one bringing up the race card. The fact remains: cops (and cop supporters) are proud and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think if people portrayed the arguments and problems with cops in a way that cops (and cop supporters) can keep their pride... life is going to be a lot better. At the end of the day, Cops have more pride in their work than other government…

There's "taking pride in your work", and there's "the thin blue line". One of those things is healthy. The other is emphatically not. It's left as an exercise for the reader to determine which is which.

Agreed. But then there are plenty of newbie (and even veteran) cops who don't understand the difference either.

Keeping that in mind, and educating them of the viewpoint is more important than yelling at them or breaking them down.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#34

Post by rosser »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #20
mingus68040 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Even though liberals will deny this..." This blanket assumption is probably why you're being down-voted. The easiest way to avoid this is by supporting your statements with as many facts as possible. A simple google search proved that this is not at all the case, for example, and that Republicans show much stronger support of police unions. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/12/the-gop-and... This selec…

This is Chicago, we really have no republicans in power. The downvotes are just knee-jerk stupidity because the MSM doesn't report much on union abuse and unions largely get a free pass in the US for political reasons. Democrats won't go after them as they more or less pay for Democratic campaigns.

...just knee-jerk stupidity...

You aren't helping yourself.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#35

Post by slantyyz »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #20
mingus68040 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Even though liberals will deny this..." This blanket assumption is probably why you're being down-voted. The easiest way to avoid this is by supporting your statements with as many facts as possible. A simple google search proved that this is not at all the case, for example, and that Republicans show much stronger support of police unions. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/12/the-gop-and... This selec…

This is Chicago, we really have no republicans in power. The downvotes are just knee-jerk stupidity because the MSM doesn't report much on union abuse and unions largely get a free pass in the US for political reasons. Democrats won't go after them as they more or less pay for Democratic campaigns.

As a non-American, I find it interesting how so many Americans (especially online commenters) refer to other Americans only as liberal/Democrat or conservative/Republican these days.

Is America that polarized? Or, are the people with more complex views (i.e., having both liberal and conservative viewpoints) just less likely to speak out?

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#36

Post by rayiner »

frandroid wrote: post #17
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #8

Even though liberals will deny this, the main issue here is that police unions are completely out of control and have this kind of power. The Independent Police Review Authority is full of union stooges, ex-cops, etc and is designed to protect cops. The real question is when will we start having the political will to question public sector unions? They seem to only make city services more expensive, more corrupt, and…

Police unions are a special kind of thuggish killer-protection union, I would not lump them in with the rest of public sector unions.

E.g. teachers' unions are subject to the same basic dynamic. The only difference is that the fallout from protecting bad teachers is usually not fatal.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#37

Post by bitwize »

jMyles wrote: post #3

Reading about the internal administrative process in large municipal governments is like learning about business in an alien culture. I can't imagine a healthy, successful organization of any kind making such an inane and chilling statement: > The spokesman said there would be no interview and sent this statement: “This is a personnel matter that would be inappropriate to address through the media, though the allegat…

> Reading about the internal administrative process in large municipal governments is like learning about business in an alien culture.

Vogons?

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#38

Post by shkkmo »

justwannasing wrote: post #10

Gonna give you guys a few quick blurbs. First, a chief of police was interviewed on CBS News a while back. He said there are thousands upon thousands of police interactions with citizens every day but all anyone ever hears about is the one bad one that happened one time. Second, and this might sound off-topic but I hope you get my point. I was helping a guy move, a few months back, along with one of his friends who's…

Yes, there are certainly good cops. Is anyone disputing that? The guy who was fired seem like he was one of them.

However, there are also problems with the ways in which cops are help responsible for their actions. This allows the bad and not-so-good cops to keep being cops.

The article is pointing out a problem with how this accountability is implemented in Chicago.

So what is your point exactly?

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#39

Post by shostack »

I think I speak for all Chicagoans when I say "what were you expecting?" This is in a state where of our last seven governors, FOUR ended up in prison. That's a whopping 57%. There's a joke that our politicians have an "orange parachute" when they leave their jobs.

When you add in all the other police issues over the years, you end up with not a single Chicagoan surprised at this outcome. The state and the city are corrupt beyond belief.

Despite the cost to the tax payer, I'd love to see this guy sue the crap out of everyone involved. Of course, that's a risky move because you know, something could happen to him.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#40

Post by _ea1k »

justwannasing wrote: post #10

Gonna give you guys a few quick blurbs. First, a chief of police was interviewed on CBS News a while back. He said there are thousands upon thousands of police interactions with citizens every day but all anyone ever hears about is the one bad one that happened one time. Second, and this might sound off-topic but I hope you get my point. I was helping a guy move, a few months back, along with one of his friends who's…

> EDIT: As I pointed out, right away, the first two commenters entirely missed my point.

Could you clarify what that point is exactly? As written, you seem to be saying that identifying bad actors from good actors is extremely difficult due to other factors. I agree with that if that is the point you are making.

I think there is something else here too, though?

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