Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings • Hacker News Board

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#21

Post by mingus68040 » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

happyscrappy wrote: post #19

mingus68040 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Even though liberals will deny this..." This blanket assumption is probably why you're being down-voted. The easiest way to avoid this is by supporting your statements with as many facts as possible. A simple google search proved that this is not at all the case, for example, and that Republicans show much stronger support of police unions. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/12/the-gop-and... This selec…

It will be very hard to pin the problems with Chicago on Republicans.

I think you're replying to the wrong comment? drzaiusapelord was the poster who suggested that partisan views would be a barrier to reform.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that a lack of political opposition in any circumstance, regardless of the party itself, will lead to anti-democratic behavior.

The real issue is that police overwhelmingly enjoy an uncritical view by the voting public such that no politician can afford not to support them. What needs to disappear is the misplaced support for police among the public.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#22

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

justwannasing wrote: post #10

Gonna give you guys a few quick blurbs. First, a chief of police was interviewed on CBS News a while back. He said there are thousands upon thousands of police interactions with citizens every day but all anyone ever hears about is the one bad one that happened one time. Second, and this might sound off-topic but I hope you get my point. I was helping a guy move, a few months back, along with one of his friends who's…

[deleted]

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#23

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:58 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #20

mingus68040 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Even though liberals will deny this..." This blanket assumption is probably why you're being down-voted. The easiest way to avoid this is by supporting your statements with as many facts as possible. A simple google search proved that this is not at all the case, for example, and that Republicans show much stronger support of police unions. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/12/the-gop-and... This selec…

This is Chicago, we really have no republicans in power. The downvotes are just knee-jerk stupidity because the MSM doesn't report much on union abuse and unions largely get a free pass in the US for political reasons. Democrats won't go after them as they more or less pay for Democratic campaigns.

[deleted]

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#24

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #8

Even though liberals will deny this, the main issue here is that police unions are completely out of control and have this kind of power. The Independent Police Review Authority is full of union stooges, ex-cops, etc and is designed to protect cops. The real question is when will we start having the political will to question public sector unions? They seem to only make city services more expensive, more corrupt, and…

I'm always impressed when people make cogent points, but then go out of their way to ensure nobody listens by gratuitously insulting most of their audience.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#25

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #8

Even though liberals will deny this, the main issue here is that police unions are completely out of control and have this kind of power. The Independent Police Review Authority is full of union stooges, ex-cops, etc and is designed to protect cops. The real question is when will we start having the political will to question public sector unions? They seem to only make city services more expensive, more corrupt, and…

[deleted]

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#26

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

justwannasing wrote: post #10

Gonna give you guys a few quick blurbs. First, a chief of police was interviewed on CBS News a while back. He said there are thousands upon thousands of police interactions with citizens every day but all anyone ever hears about is the one bad one that happened one time. Second, and this might sound off-topic but I hope you get my point. I was helping a guy move, a few months back, along with one of his friends who's…

What is your point, exactly? That we blow police misbehavior out of proportion? That systematic racial discrimination is OK because black people are the ones committing crimes anyway?

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#27

Post by saosebastiao » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

frandroid wrote: post #17

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #8

Even though liberals will deny this, the main issue here is that police unions are completely out of control and have this kind of power. The Independent Police Review Authority is full of union stooges, ex-cops, etc and is designed to protect cops. The real question is when will we start having the political will to question public sector unions? They seem to only make city services more expensive, more corrupt, and…

Police unions are a special kind of thuggish killer-protection union, I would not lump them in with the rest of public sector unions.

I would, even if other public sector unions don't result in a physical war on the public. All public sector unions have the same imbalance of power as police unions: they have the power to withhold vital public services, the very reason we accept the problems with government as an institution, and they do it for personal gain. If a Kellogs plant goes on strike, I can still buy cereal from Post. If a transit union goes on strike, 10% of the city can't get to work. Unions are a collusion power that we accept as a counterbalance to the collusion power that businesses have over us. Why would we ever give government the power to collude against us?

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#28

Post by colechristensen » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

justwannasing wrote: post #10

Gonna give you guys a few quick blurbs. First, a chief of police was interviewed on CBS News a while back. He said there are thousands upon thousands of police interactions with citizens every day but all anyone ever hears about is the one bad one that happened one time. Second, and this might sound off-topic but I hope you get my point. I was helping a guy move, a few months back, along with one of his friends who's…

Police profile cars.

That is, in edge cases like a bit of swerving, 10 over the limit, newly expired tags, etc; police will look at the car and what they can tell about who is driving it and where they are to determine if they pull over or not.

A cop told me this directly. I don't remember his exact conditions – but they included things like a young guy driving a real nice car or a car that seem like maybe it was his mother's or a really beat up car. You're a lot less likely to get pulled over if you're driving a mid-priced sedan.

---

In America police kill about 1000 people per year. There's no hard number because there are no official statistics kept – that's telling in itself.

Thousands and thousands of police interactions each day, and each day about three of those ends up with somebody dead. The police in this country are undertrained and underpaid. The stupidity of the populace drives them to be statistics driven, and the environment attracts hot heads who want power to the career. Once on the job the complete lack of negative feedback from internal investigations and the courts gives them god complexes and their culture becomes a cesspool of corruption and us vs. them mentality.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#29

Post by dragontamer » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #26

justwannasing wrote: post #10

Gonna give you guys a few quick blurbs. First, a chief of police was interviewed on CBS News a while back. He said there are thousands upon thousands of police interactions with citizens every day but all anyone ever hears about is the one bad one that happened one time. Second, and this might sound off-topic but I hope you get my point. I was helping a guy move, a few months back, along with one of his friends who's…

What is your point, exactly? That we blow police misbehavior out of proportion? That systematic racial discrimination is OK because black people are the ones committing crimes anyway?

Erm, no. He's making a pro-cop argument. You are the one bringing up the race card.

The fact remains: cops (and cop supporters) are proud and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think if people portrayed the arguments and problems with cops in a way that cops (and cop supporters) can keep their pride... life is going to be a lot better.

At the end of the day, Cops have more pride in their work than other government workers (compared to... say... Motor Vehicle Administrations or TSA Airport scanners). When you push on Cops, they push back because of their pride.

But its not necessarily a bad thing. You just gotta keep the pride in mind when you propose police reform. Otherwise, it becomes very difficult to get the individual officers to reform with the law.

Re: Chicago fires investigator who found cops at fault in shootings

#30

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 5:17 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #29

mikeash wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point, exactly? That we blow police misbehavior out of proportion? That systematic racial discrimination is OK because black people are the ones committing crimes anyway?

Erm, no. He's making a pro-cop argument. You are the one bringing up the race card. The fact remains: cops (and cop supporters) are proud and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think if people portrayed the arguments and problems with cops in a way that cops (and cop supporters) can keep their pride... life is going to be a lot better. At the end of the day, Cops have more pride in their work than other government…

"You could look at my ticketing and arrests for the few months I've been on the job and say I do racial profiling cause most of them are [insert what you know it is] cause, from what I can tell, most of them do the things that get them tickets or arrested and put in jail."

I am not the one who brought up race.