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Ask HN: Should I go to college?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't want to sway the question with too many of my own opinions but I have been feeling the same way. The biggest hurdle I've faced is that of proving my worth to others. Have you faced similar issues?

Fortunately it hasn't been a problem in the last couple years, but I can absolutely remember a time when I had to "prove" myself. A great resume is key as well as a portfolio site. I always bring my laptop to an interview incase they want to see code; I always make sure I have examples on my portfolio site that are up to date and have to do with the job I'm applying for, etc... What was funny - my 2nd last job - they…

Things seem to have shifted on my end as of late. People are very skeptical when if I'm interviewing for a job, more than in the past (I tried recently a few times when work dried up bombed on the interview processes a few times... i have comments about it in my history).

I need to get my resume cleaned up and put together a new portfolio site.

I'm starting to become disinterested in full time gainful enslavement. Three reasons I keep contracting:

1. freedom (i make my own hours and jump between contracts every 3 months or so, taking a short break between... usually around a week). When I do work, I only take on fully remote contracts.

2. my "interviews" consist of asking how much I charge, asking what my availability is, asking a few simple tech questions, and then having me sign a contract. That's because I get my work through recommendations from other people so I no longer have a need to prove myself on this front.

3. i make more money than when i was employed.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#12
There is no right answer. A college degree, in CS or anything else basically can provide three things: the college experience, vocational skills, social validation, and personal enrichment.[1]

Anyway, how these suss out for a particular individual at a particular point in their life varies. In the question, social validation and vocational skills are explicit. Personal enrichment feels implicit in the overall structure, by which I mean that there's a bit of "I wonder what I might learn if I took this risk" lurking breath the surface. If there weren't there would be little reason for a long question.

Your grandfather said what he said to give you permission to do something that is locally suboptimal and entails social risk. That's about as good as a grandfather can grandfather. Maybe you can talk some more with him. Probably worth doing regardless.

Good luck.

[1]: a college degree can provide FOUR things...

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#13
It sounds like you are perfectly capable of learning technologies on your own, and that your primary concern is having a degree as opposed to an education.

Have you considered going for a bachelors in a non-technical field like economics, or business administration, or engineering management?

Any bachelors degree and your work experience would probably be enough to get your foot in the door of any company if you wanted to step away from contracting and go for a corporate job.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#14
Personal prejudice: I'd be very reluctant to give up earnings while in college, particularly as you're already very viable.

In tech, college is mostly a learning experience and certificate program for entry level workers. You're not entry level.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#15
Just to share: In my 20+ yr career no employer actually asked for any proof of degree. Whatever I have written on my resume was fine with 100% of employers.

They (rightfully so) care about my ability to deliver stuff vs. stuff printed on some paper.

Exclusions from this rule:

- Really large enterprises usually hire some sort of background verification services that would annoy you to no end to provide all kinds of proofs.

- US Immigration (to get TN or other working visa) does ask for proofs of your degrees.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#16
post #8

I think it's good advice to get a degree in general. I would think about testing out taking a CS course and see if you enjoy it and is something you like. You'll never regret having a degree. That said at this point in your career I'm not sure how many more doors it will open for you and you'll have to weigh the time spent vs knowledge gained. Another option is maybe a BS in Science in something other than CS that yo…

These comments are a big relief. All except these: > laying off employees in their 40s > hire lower cost which raises the question: what should a 34 year old developer be planning to do by time he is in his 40s? I'm realizing now that this might be the crux of my situation.

I wouldn't worry too much . . . just keep it in mind . . . the future is filled with all sorts of unknowns . . . not 100% of developers will get laid off/replaced by cheaper labor but it's a possibility (Disney, CA Power company, in the news recently).

I'd recommend exploring having your own product/app/business if that interests you vs. depending on a company long term.

But lots of changes are going to come about in the next 10 to 15 year. Automation . . . interstate trucking, uber cars, garbage trucks, restaurants, this will eliminate a lot of jobs and businesses that provide services (truck stops, etc). So being a developer your job is more secure than a lot of careers that are going to be going through major changes.

Don't fear, worry about change, just be prepared/ready.

If you're talented I expect you can be a contract developer for as long as you want. But explore other options/opportunities.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#17
post #8

I think it's good advice to get a degree in general. I would think about testing out taking a CS course and see if you enjoy it and is something you like. You'll never regret having a degree. That said at this point in your career I'm not sure how many more doors it will open for you and you'll have to weigh the time spent vs knowledge gained. Another option is maybe a BS in Science in something other than CS that yo…

These comments are a big relief. All except these: > laying off employees in their 40s > hire lower cost which raises the question: what should a 34 year old developer be planning to do by time he is in his 40s? I'm realizing now that this might be the crux of my situation.

There are developer jobs out there for 40+ year-olds. I worked with a developer who was 70+ for a little over a year. What some people do is they move to tech management positions such as CTO, programming manager, or work as software architects. That really depends on what you enjoy doing thou.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#18
I'm a relatively new developer at 33, with about 2 years of experience now. I was in a different industry for 12 years, but always wanted to be a dev. I dropped out of CS about 13 years ago after I chose a bad (for profit) school that I didn't enjoy. I enrolled in a local state school a couple months before getting the job I have now. I'm half way through my degree, working full time and going to school about half time (6-9 credits per semester). I don't know if I would reccomend it or not. I only went back because I needed to take concrete steps to get myself on the career path I wanted. Now that I'm in it, it's a bit of a struggle to stay motivated for school.

Pros:

-I'll have a degree at some point and will no longer have to have awkward conversations about why I don't have a degree. This is probably the #1 reason I'm doing it.

-It removes a way for employers to filter me without seriously considering me as a candidate.

-I'll be proud of my accomplishment at some point and won't feel bad every time I think about my relationship with college.

Cons:

-Money. At a local state school, nothing crazy, I'll be about $35k in debt by the end of it with plenty of up front costs (books, etc).

-Time. It eats an incredible amount of time. Some classes require an hour or so of study time outside of class, but many require a ton. Depending on how polished your math skills are, you'll have a huge wall to climb here. I hadn't been in a math class in 13 years and then get tossed into calculus. Yowch. In addition to 5 or so hours of class time, I probably put in 10 hours a week of studying/homework just for that one course.

-Scheduling. Your scheduling needs might be different, but I work a pretty standard workday of 9-5. The university's latest CS courses start at 5:30 two days a week, which means if I am taking two CS courses simultaneously, I'm in class four nights a week. That means studying has to happen on virtually every off night. It also makes it very tough to take more than 2 classes at a time. Keeping a decent pace is key to actually finishing in a reasonable time. It'll probably take me 5 years total to get through it all.

-Content. The actual courses will drive you crazy. Professor's requirements are usually a clinic in what not to do in the real world. Your good habits will be punished in many circumstances. About half way through, I can't say I've learned anything invaluable that I couldn't have learned better on my own if I were sufficiently motivated. I'm hoping the upper class courses are more interesting, but so far it's been a bust.

-Bandwidth. You only have so many hours in a day. You'll be spending your time on things you have to learn instead of the things you WANT to learn. I'd love to spend my evenings getting more proficient with modern tech, but instead I find myself reading about anthropology or the like. My university is very Java/C/C++ heavy, which is not what I prefer. I'm happy to learn these things, but I don't see myself ever being a happy Java dev professionally.

So there are a lot more cons than there are pros for me, but I think the pros are still worth it. I'll let you know in a couple years. If you're looking to be indy dev, I doubt a college degree will help you get where you want to go. I'd spend that time and effort on a project of your own. By the end of it, you'll have demonstrable skills and a product you can show off.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#20
I did 3.5 years of Mechanical Engineering, but I realized that what I really love is programming...

So I changed to a CS course, but I did just 1 semester and dropped out... The educational model nowadays have countless problems.

For that reason, I created this list, for those (like me) that want to have the knowledge offered in a CS course, but without spending too much time/money.

https://github.com/ericdouglas/computer-science-and-engineer...

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