Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#1

Post by robotkilla » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 9:39 AM UTC

I'm in my mid 30s. I've been working professionally as a web developer for the last 13~ years, 4~ of which have been fully remote as a contractor. I can program in multiple languages (including Javascript, Python, PHP... and i'm currently teaching myself c# and cg as video game dev is a hobby of mine).

Prior to becoming a contractor I had around 10 years of solid on the job work experience.

My goal for the immediate future is to continue working as a contractor and self educating, however I'm 34 years old and I want to make sure that I'm making the right moves for the future.

I went to college (for design) back when I was 19 - 21 and dropped out with one credit left and started working for a small web development shop (I had been programming on and off since I was 9 years old). I've never had a computer science course. Everything I know has been completely self taught or picked up from coworkers on the job.

I have been told by my grandfather that I should attend college for computer science, but I feel like this might slow me down. I'm hoping I can get some good feedback here. Is college a good idea for someone in my position? What benefits or drawbacks will it bring?

A bit more background:

* I have never been to school (100% homeschooled until my brief college years).

* I do have some gaps in my knowledge however I typically find myself surpassing others in certain areas (in other words, I feel the lack of college from time to time, but for the most part I have kept up or even passed other people).

* I want to make independent video games for a living (I have been teaching myself C#, CG, Unity, Pygame, 3d techniques, pixel art, and brushing up on my math for the last 2 years) - would going to college slow me down on my endeavours at this point or would it equip me with the skills I need to actually finish a game?

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#2

Post by dudul » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 10:14 AM UTC

I have a masters degree and have been a developer for more than 10 years now. I really don't see what a successful professionals with 13 years of experience could learn in college.

It s unclear from your post why you even feel the need to go back. Have you been denied position because you didn't have a degree? Is it because you want to learn more?

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#3

Post by lsiunsuex » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 10:34 AM UTC

You sound exactly like me - same age, same skill set, same people telling you to goto college.

I prefer a full time steady job (and have one) but if your happy with contract work - great!

Every programmer needs to continue to expand they're knowledge - it's a constant learning process. For the longest time I relied soly on systems administration and PHP - I've expanded into Objective C and AngularJS most recently - trying to teach myself React now as JS frameworks seam to be the "wave of the future"

An example I always give and especially remind my godson who's 16:

My wife is a very bright person - went to a private school for high school, full ride. She then went to a great college, full ride also graduated with a 3.9 and magna cum laude in Phycology. Wanna know the job she held after she graduated from college and for 9 years after that? Secretary.

That's not to put my wife down; it's to explain that regardless of your education, it's all about your drive and motivation. Some people goto college and don't do much with it. Some of us didn't goto college; work our asses off and succeed anyways (I make more then both my brother and sister who both went to college and got they're MBA's)

Work hard; focus on your goal and don't worry about the degree.

(my wife is now back in school for dental hygiene - still with a 3.9 gpa)

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#4

Post by robotkilla » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 10:40 AM UTC

dudul wrote: post #2

I have a masters degree and have been a developer for more than 10 years now. I really don't see what a successful professionals with 13 years of experience could learn in college. It s unclear from your post why you even feel the need to go back. Have you been denied position because you didn't have a degree? Is it because you want to learn more?

It isn't that I do want to go back, its that I'm trying to determine if the advice of my grandfather (and a few other people) is something I should follow.

I don't really see what I will gain from it either, but like I said I've never had a computer science course so I'm not sure if I'm missing out.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#5

Post by robotkilla » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

lsiunsuex wrote: post #3

You sound exactly like me - same age, same skill set, same people telling you to goto college. I prefer a full time steady job (and have one) but if your happy with contract work - great! Every programmer needs to continue to expand they're knowledge - it's a constant learning process. For the longest time I relied soly on systems administration and PHP - I've expanded into Objective C and AngularJS most recently - t…

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't want to sway the question with too many of my own opinions but I have been feeling the same way.

The biggest hurdle I've faced is that of proving my worth to others. Have you faced similar issues?

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#6

Post by Nelyah » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 10:59 AM UTC

I will take the point of view of someone who went to college. Actually I just graduated from my 5th year(I think it's master degree) and going to PhD in computer science. To understand what I want to explain, you need to know that I began college with 3 years of biology, and then switch to computer science. It is only in my 3rd year that I realised how much I loved computer science. I worked my ass off to get directly from 3rd year of biology to 4th year of computer science, so I basically learnt everything by myself too. In the end, I felt that every "practical" classes were pointless. I don't need someone to learn a new language, and it seems you don't either. But it is when I tried some theoretical courses that I realized how much I had to learn in this domain.

I never learnt anything about advanced algorithmic, or graph theory before, or language semantics. But in the end, by knowing all that I really look at a problem with a different point of view than before. I am able to imagine some new tricky algorithm etc.

All of that to say : It depends on what you seek going to college. You will be bored if it's just learning some new language, because you either know them already, or you will go faster than the course. But if you want to learn some more theoretical knowledge, you will learn some new stuff for sure. Then again, I don't know where you live, and college might be quite expensive in some country, so I can't tell if it's really worth the money (since you already have some years as a developper). But it is totally worth the time imo.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#7

Post by robotkilla » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 11:09 AM UTC

Nelyah wrote: post #6

I will take the point of view of someone who went to college. Actually I just graduated from my 5th year(I think it's master degree) and going to PhD in computer science. To understand what I want to explain, you need to know that I began college with 3 years of biology, and then switch to computer science. It is only in my 3rd year that I realised how much I loved computer science. I worked my ass off to get directl…

Thank you very much for this feedback.

> . But it is when I tried some theoretical courses that I realized how much I had to learn in this domain.

> I never learnt anything about advanced algorithmic, or graph theory before, or language semantics. But in the end, by knowing all that I really look at a problem with a different point of view than before. I am able to imagine some new tricky algorithm etc.

This is exactly what I have found myself going through since making an attempt to switch to 3d video game development. Specifically with the game I'm currently building and some other things I've wanted to get involved with (I've taken an interest in AI lately... like everyone else). I can see how having more math in my past would help greatly.

That said I've been studying algorithms and supplementing my math with books from the library. I also have a list of bookmarks to various CS courses. I just need to block out time and watch them.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#8

Post by saluki » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 11:19 AM UTC

I think it's good advice to get a degree in general. I would think about testing out taking a CS course and see if you enjoy it and is something you like. You'll never regret having a degree. That said at this point in your career I'm not sure how many more doors it will open for you and you'll have to weigh the time spent vs knowledge gained. Another option is maybe a BS in Science in something other than CS that you could do online that would take less time/focus, but CS would probably be the best fit for your skill set and future employment.

Grandparents are great and have lots of knowledge. The employment landscape has changed though, previously a degree was a ticket to a secure corporate gig till retirement. Now you have companies laying off employees in their 40s to hire lower cost employees, benefits are being reduced, etc. So I don't see a corporate gig as more secure than contracting or freelancing. Another option is to focus on leveling up to increase your salary/savings. Your grandfather would probably feel a lot better if he knows you have the skills to obtain contract employment easily and are making $50+/hr as a contractor. So maybe share how much you're making and that you have multiple offers when you are ready for a new contract position.

I would recommend leveling up to increase your earning power vs. a CS degree, unless it's something you would enjoy/want to have personally.

I don't think you'll learn video game development at university. That's something you would learn on your own making games.

Check out the startups for the rest of us podcast. It has good information on planning for your own products/businesses while working your day/contractor job . . . most of this will apply to making the leap to independent video game developer.

I would say open your options up . . . success in independent video games (Notch/Minecraft) is a bit like a lottery ticket. So this might be something you strive for but realize it might turn in to a nice hobby or niche with a small following with a chance of a billion dollar payoff or maybe a fulltime income or maybe just something you do for fun/side income.

You probably don't want to do contract work forever. So plan to launch your own products, maybe a SaaS app, some type of recurring revenue so you don't have to chase contracts/projects full time. This could also help give you more time to learn/run your independent video game development studio.

Check out everything by patio11 (lots of great articles/advice), http://startupsfortherestofus.com podcast (and previous microconf videos) and Amy Hoy's stacking the bricks video.

Good luck with the direction you go.

Good luck sounds like you're on the right track.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#9

Post by robotkilla » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 11:37 AM UTC

saluki wrote: post #8

I think it's good advice to get a degree in general. I would think about testing out taking a CS course and see if you enjoy it and is something you like. You'll never regret having a degree. That said at this point in your career I'm not sure how many more doors it will open for you and you'll have to weigh the time spent vs knowledge gained. Another option is maybe a BS in Science in something other than CS that yo…

These comments are a big relief.

All except these:

> laying off employees in their 40s

> hire lower cost

which raises the question: what should a 34 year old developer be planning to do by time he is in his 40s? I'm realizing now that this might be the crux of my situation.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to college?

#10

Post by lsiunsuex » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 11:40 AM UTC

robotkilla wrote: post #5

lsiunsuex wrote: post #3

You sound exactly like me - same age, same skill set, same people telling you to goto college. I prefer a full time steady job (and have one) but if your happy with contract work - great! Every programmer needs to continue to expand they're knowledge - it's a constant learning process. For the longest time I relied soly on systems administration and PHP - I've expanded into Objective C and AngularJS most recently - t…

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't want to sway the question with too many of my own opinions but I have been feeling the same way. The biggest hurdle I've faced is that of proving my worth to others. Have you faced similar issues?

Fortunately it hasn't been a problem in the last couple years, but I can absolutely remember a time when I had to "prove" myself.

A great resume is key as well as a portfolio site. I always bring my laptop to an interview incase they want to see code; I always make sure I have examples on my portfolio site that are up to date and have to do with the job I'm applying for, etc...

What was funny - my 2nd last job - they need a Wordpress developer and although I'm damn good with PHP, I hated Wordpress - so the weekend of the interview (interview was on monday) I spent about a day reading the WP docs and built a website on my portfolio site with a custom theme, custom plugin, made it responsive, etc... (stuff they would expect) - showed it to them during the interview and got the job (I like to think it helped) - it didn't come out until months later that I learned WP in a weekend (roughly) and everyone was pretty impressed.

My current job - they were looking for a very specific skill set (Rackspace Cloud administration) and actually were more impressed with one of my side projects then any job I held. So you never know what someone is looking for - could be professional experience, could be a side project.