Let's hope this works out better than the North Korean nuclear deal.
Fortunately, I think Iran is the more tractable of the two nations, at least until the North Korean regime collapses.
Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
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Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#32If you had told me that would be today's headline at any point over the past decade, I'm not sure I would have believed you. If this works out, the President has another thing to add to his list of "things no President before me achieved".
Well, Bill Clinton got a nuclear deal with North Korea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreed_Framework
Yeah, and that didn't quite worked out as planned, although I still view it as a positive step forwards.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#33Sceptical Iranian here. There are groups that profit from an ongoing tension and conflict on both sides. This time around it seems they have lost the hand, but we would be a fool to think that this agreement settles things for good.
This has always been and will always be a fluid situation. I think the work has just begun now, let's hope the sane people inc charge on both sides will keep things positive. Otherwise it only takes one delayed inspection permit, or an angry military general to take things back right to the start.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US does not have universal healthcare. Further, Obama wasn't responsible for the ACA. edit: if the US had universal healthcare, the US wouldn't have 30+ million people without health coverage today.
Nevermind that it's a large step in that direction, I'm pretty sure it was his pen that signed it into law.
It was his pen, that was his biggest contribution to it. His involvement in crafting the legislation, and getting the necessary votes, was almost non-existent. It was the super majority Democratic Congress that was responsible for making the ACA happen. Both in terms of wrangling the votes together, and reaching the countless compromises necessary to get it through by the slim margin it ultimately passed by.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#35If you had told me that would be today's headline at any point over the past decade, I'm not sure I would have believed you. If this works out, the President has another thing to add to his list of "things no President before me achieved".
"Letting Iran develop a nuclear bomb."
Not sure I'd want that as my epitaph.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#36If you had told me that would be today's headline at any point over the past decade, I'm not sure I would have believed you. If this works out, the President has another thing to add to his list of "things no President before me achieved".
Have you read the Iran deal? The Iranians were happy about it, this it likely wasn't a good deal for the rest of us. The Iranians can't be trusted. If Obama cares about Iran, he would have supported their Green Revolution; instead those protestors were executed, tortured or imprisioned. Yet, strangely, Obama supported the Egyptian coup. Honestly, Obama doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to foreign policy. He…
> The Iranians can't be trusted.
National stereotypes, pillars of pragmatic diplomacy ever since 2000 BC and the clear mark of logical thinkers the world over.
> If Obama cares about Iran, he would have supported their Green Revolution
How do you know he didn't? Because he didn't send in bombers to "support demonstrations"?
> Yet, strangely, Obama supported the Egyptian coup
... when the alternative would have been much more Iran-friendly; yeah, how strange, right? Honestly, how do you make these random mental associations?
> He sort of waddles along weakening the U.S. position whenever possible.
A comprehensive Iran-US 'peace deal' (or even a strategic partnership going forward) would immensely strengthen US standing around the world, dramatically reducing tensions in the Middle East and providing a balance to the uncritical reliance on Saudi Arabia and Turkey that so much pain has brought since the '90s (from Al Qaeda to IS). So uhm, there is that.
But yeah, I agree that it weakens fearmongers' positions, both in US, Israel and Iran.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#37Sceptical Iranian here. There are groups that profit from an ongoing tension and conflict on both sides. This time around it seems they have lost the hand, but we would be a fool to think that this agreement settles things for good. This has always been and will always be a fluid situation. I think the work has just begun now, let's hope the sane people inc charge on both sides will keep things positive. Otherwise it…
Re your second paragraph, keep in mind that the US Congress gets to vote on it.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#38I think the future of the Middle East is a tense balance between Saudi and Iranian poles, with both countries being normalized in the international community. The USA can't bring either country to heel, but it can hopefully prevent the stalemate from being nuclear along Sunni-Shia lines. But what's also changed is that the US needs a normalized partner in Iran to fully isolate ISIS, the Taliban, Al Qaeda and other far worse actors. I think we can also be encouraged by the demographics in Iran, which are moving younger and more liberal. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#39Iran agreed to provide "Managed access". Iraq inspections all over again.
Source? I've seen the opposite, that the IAEA and others will have unfettered access wherever they want, otherwise the sanctions come back into effect immediately.
Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached
#40Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…
Right now, there's a lot of bubbling neutral-to-pro-US sentiment in the younger, wealthier segments of Iran. If we purposefully, wantonly destroy their economy without even negotiating, that disappears, and we turn potential allies into absolute enemies. The level of currency devastation they've had since the beginning of these sanctions, and resulting unemployment, have already pushed their finances to the brink. No…
"We may not like their government but at least they're rational"
Well, a theocracy is almost by definition not rational, in the modern sense. It's based on divine laws, obedience, and absolute faith on an ideology. Not logic, provability, and the scientific method.
Dealing with the iranian regime the same way you would deal with an occidental country is the greatest mistake i think.
Thinking "sure, they apply shariah, and believe islam is the only true religion, and that god leads them, but deep inside they know things aren't that simple" is applying your own logic to them ( and by them, i mean people with guns who are in power, not young iranians looking the web for Game of Thrones episodes).