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Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

nytimes.com

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Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#11

Post by bsaul »

sveme wrote: post #7
bsaul wrote: post #5

Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…

I don't quite understand your question. You are asking what Iran wanted from the EU and US and what they wanted from Iran? EU&US: Don't develop nuclear weapons. Iran: Stop the sanctions, let us sell our oil. Is that what you were asking for?

I don't understand why there were negociation at all. Usually, with such crucial matters, threatening the world peace, there is no discussion. The strongest simply impose its decision.

Eu&us: stop or you'll get destroyed ( militarely or economically). Iran : ok.

I don't see how it went any other way. The only reason i could imagine was if other big countries ( russia and china mainly) were saying " we disagree".

But in that case negociations wouldn't need to be with iran, but directly with china or russia.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#13

Post by Tomte »

thescrewdriver wrote: post #6
DiabloD3 wrote: post #3

If you had told me that would be today's headline at any point over the past decade, I'm not sure I would have believed you. If this works out, the President has another thing to add to his list of "things no President before me achieved".

Out of curiosity, what else would be on that list?

Nationwide Universal Healthcare.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#14

Post by adventured »

Tomte wrote: post #13
thescrewdriver wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what else would be on that list?

Nationwide Universal Healthcare.

The US does not have universal healthcare.

Further, Obama wasn't responsible for the ACA.

edit: if the US had universal healthcare, the US wouldn't have 30+ million people without health coverage today.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#15

Post by m4r71n »

I'm in the middle of reading "Countdown to Zero Day", the book about Stuxnet. It contains a very good summary of how Iran started enriching Uranium, where they acquired the technology to build the centrifuges, and how most countries that signed the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons attempted to reason with Iran to stop enriching Uranium.

I highly recommend it for anyone interested in this topic. And of course the detailed analysis of Stuxnet is great as well.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#16

Post by colinplamondon »

bsaul wrote: post #5

Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…

Right now, there's a lot of bubbling neutral-to-pro-US sentiment in the younger, wealthier segments of Iran.

If we purposefully, wantonly destroy their economy without even negotiating, that disappears, and we turn potential allies into absolute enemies.

The level of currency devastation they've had since the beginning of these sanctions, and resulting unemployment, have already pushed their finances to the brink.

Normally "sane" countries (Germany, Italy, Russia WW1) that go over the brink economically tend to go batshit crazy, and put into power the worst elements from their society, and invest even more control in authoritarian hands.

I don't think anyone wants a regional power like Iran, controlling the wealth that it does with the military it has, to go bankrupt, and even worse elements to take power.

We may not like their government, but at least they're rational. ISIS shows there's far, far deeper levels of crazy just waiting to be unleashed.

TL;DR: Not being callously destructive of another country's economy, whilst negotiating in good faith, is in our national security interests.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#17

Post by [deleted] »

bsaul wrote: post #5

Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…

[deleted]

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#19

Post by nabla9 »

bsaul wrote: post #5

Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…

1. Iran is now geopolitically stronger than it was before Iraq and Afghan wars. It won just by giving only minimal assistance to it's allies. Iraq is now Iran's ally.

2. Other countries are moving ahead. Approximately 10% of China's oil imports are from Iran. 11% of of India's oil comes from Iran. Iran is selling long term exclusive rights to China.

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