Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

news.ycombinator.com

11–20 of 84 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#11
post #9
post #6

> Lately a number of open source projects has faced tremendous pressure from people coming from Twitter and Reddit to have issues resolved a certain way. Can you point to a specific example? the only things I have seen is some brigading and cabal to pressure a project owner to remove a contributor from a project, but it was akin to a lynch mob, not related with programming in any way.

This Google NTP stuff with SystemD comes to mind [1]. Everybody, especially HN, jumped on the hate train and spammed the issue [1] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/437

This is one example I had in mind when I made this thread; the issue that the grandparent mentions is another. I have seen a similar scenario play out with a few smaller projects' repositories but I am reluctant to mention them.

There is also good-natured but meaningless noise like https://github.com/gogits/gogs/issues/5. I believe this kind of support, while flattering at first, ultimately puts undue pressure on the volunteer contributor. On the plus side, the comments come from people using the project.

Perhaps GitHub was wrong to get rid of the upvote button on issues unconditionally. Having the option to enable it would probably have helped the Gogs case.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#12

If it's a hobbyist project you can ignore the "social media pressure". If you have commercial interests it's probably better to set up your own issue/feature/bug-tracking system independent of GitHub.

what are some nice ones?

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#14
This was basically my life with building Ansible for three years. Given, I loved many aspects of it, but it was really hard and it took a major toll. (clarification: this has post has absolutely nothing to do why I am not working on it anymore)

I've been considering a bit of a blog post on this (particularly the unknown parts of wide scale OSS projects), but basically open source projects get harder as you have more contributors.

Time to review code properly (and to be overly friendly and helpful in doing so) often can completely eat into the ability for you to write and architect code properly, which strips out the ability to do the design that needs to be done. (and as you're doing this - taking maybe 15 minutes per patch, the odds of someone fixing the submission are I would guess about 25% - and you might need to do a couple dozens of these a day).

People can get annoyed at filtering out of decisions unless you overcommunicate at a rate that is probably 5-10x times what is normally expected in normal business conversation. (I was already communicating at a rate that was probably 3-5x what most developers do on the lists, and generally got crucified for it, with myths building up about my character, etc).

Often decisions have no right answer, there's a good and a bad, and either decision will irk someone, and you'll get negative blog posts about what you are doing in either direction. You optimize for the thing that will help the most people, and the one guy who doesn't have his obscure itch scratched will assume you are deliberately ignoring him. You eliminate a problem user so you can concentrate on 1000 people and doing real work, and then others jump all over you after the micro-incident (that they only saw part of).

GitHub makes some things harder -- the issue tracker doesn't have issue templates, so you have to overcommunicate the need to fill out proper templates, and people also throw code at projects prior to asking what the code should be. I love GitHub for the OSS explosion it has enabled, but it is a chaotic way of managing a project as that project gets big.

It also makes it very obvious when a project is buried behind a lot of incomplete contributions, but similarly doesn't provide good tools to sort and manage large numbers of incoming tickets. It makes it very obvious when those ticket numbers build up, and arguments happen on closed tickets.

Twitter is probably one of the worst things, as there's a lot of passive aggressiveness on it. Twitter is an "argument machine". It doesn't provide context, but it does provide a place to rally a mob with pitchforks over the slightest percieved offense, that often should not have been an offense.

Often you don't want people leaving trash on your lawn, but if you edit out the offensive things, the same people claim you are censoring them.

My advice is dont try to acquire users too fast. The "Go" project recently said something like "we had to open source this once it was a certain way along". My conditioning from Red Hat was "do everything in the open", but that was not really something Red Hat always did, as they had a lot of projects with low contribution numbers.

My ultimate feeling is that good projects have good central direction. Contributions can be good, and making a project around a base that encourages lots of shallow contributions can be a very successful strategy for making a successful project, if you do that, you end up doing a lot of custodial work and can't always hit the goals you want to hit.

While it wasn't true in the last 5 years, now I feel the code is more important than the contribution process, and focusing on that allows the users to get a better experience. Users matter a lot - and folks trying to contribute matter a lot - but I don't like the way the inherant focus of contribution turns the creator of a thing into a project manager and a PR manager, and takes away their ability to innovate on the thing.

Being able to work on code is great, but I'd still want to see contribution structured around a mailing list. Strongly encourage talking about code/ideas before submission, but most people will not read it and will submit directly anyway.

I think part of my problem was the barrier to contribution was really low (and that was great) because it was pretty modular at the smaller ends, and we quickly got overwhelmed. I like to thrash very complex codebases for not being contributor friendly, but the breathing room would have been nice.

I guess there's no clear answer - holding things longer before open sourcing them might help. Making sure you have very high coding standards helps. But eventually you're just going to have that very large number of people.

Most of everyone (95%) are awesome, it's just that the virtue of something being so open exposes you to everyone that might not be - and even those people are probably awesome, the nature of low-bandwidth communication on the internet probably just exposes you to misunderstandings and you end up stressing out over things vs being the friends you normally would.

Ignore what you can - it's a problem when others don't understand this and bug you about every single comment and interaction, and judge you on it. The ratio of complaints to thank you's is not always worth the pay at times, so just make sure you're doing it because you care about it, and find the best way to make it work for you, even if that's moving something to redmine and bitbucket :)

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#15
post #12

If it's a hobbyist project you can ignore the "social media pressure". If you have commercial interests it's probably better to set up your own issue/feature/bug-tracking system independent of GitHub.

what are some nice ones?

I have been using Redmine for about 2 years now: http://www.redmine.org

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#16
Delete/hide the comments and a public announcement on the bug what types of comments are acceptable/unacceptable.

As someone else said, it is usually very obvious. Many comments within 24 hours on a bug that is usually bike shed worthy.

Bugs comments should be technical in nature. Basically no (endless) discussion _if_ something should (not) be done. It should be about _how_ to do something (implement/fix bug/etc).

The deleting (hiding for anyone but admins) is usually pretty effective. Once they understand that you have way too much time on your hands, then they'll stop pretty quickly.

What's important is not to get aggressive though. Try turning the attention into something positive and give some tips (how things work and how to get something done). E.g. sometimes bugs do get forgotten and some attention will get them fixed. But that doesn't need 10-15 comments after eachother.

My experience is with Bugzilla btw.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#17
> When your project faces this pressure how do you act to ensure that meaningful discussion happens and decisions are made that are the best for your actual users and contributors in the long run?

Make sure you know who your users are.

Keep in touch with them, reach out, do "community building". They will tell you things about your product/software/system you would otherwise never hear.

That way, you can also filter out issues from known troublestarters as noise, and, much like in Casablanca, it's a "round up the usual suspects" thing.

You could probably write a bot to filter them out, very similar to the ggautoblocker whose perl sources *are on GitHub, just, the other way 'round.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#18
Got to be honest, from personal experience on github and sourceforge, I have found that some people will not take polite feedback, they will not listen, they will not be reasonable, and they will suck all your energy - if you let them. Basically ignore and block the time sinks as soon as possible. And don't feel bad about it - you would quickly remove a tick, mosquito, leech or other parasite from yourself, remove them equally swiftly from your workflow.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#19
post #13
post #5

"you got the source, feel free to send a merge request, thanks!" Problem sorted?

Sometimes the issue is that somebody's merge request has been rejected, so not necessarily.

I'm the author/maintainer of simavr: https://github.com/buserror/simavr

I've had to refuse some merge requests, I did it by mostly ignoring them, or explaining that it looks like a very large patch for a something that isn't necessarily wanted... Also I factor in the fact /I/ will have to maintain that patch in the future, as the contributor will likely disappear to other interests sooner or later, so if I don't like it, ultimately it's /my/ choice, even if it doesn't come down to a technical point...

A good 'test' of a merge request is to see if the author is willing to make changes that you request.. It is a very good filter for 'motivation'; if the author doesn't reply, well, that's a merge request I'll close it 6 month next time I go down the list...

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

#20
post #4

You can temporarily close comments on an issue that's getting a lot of outside traffic. Usually social media traffic is very bursty like that.

Exactly. It's an outrage machine, people who participate mostly want to get their daily fix of feeling that they're fighting for a good cause - and if you lay low for a few days or a couple of weeks, few if any will be persistent enough to bug you after that, as the focus will shift elsewhere.

You may or may not want to issue a polite and carefully-worded statement, but don't cave in - something like "we've heard you and understand your position, thanks for letting us know".

It might be different when the issue is used in intra-project political fight (like two companies competing for control over the project), but for your average Twitter raid that should be enough.

Do not engage further, do not fight them, they are just self-righteous trolls - so, just don't feed them.

Post reply on HN