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I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

nytimes.com

11–20 of 136 posts

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#11
post #3

U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. How does that square with the article's "The new I.R.S. guidance will be retroactive, applying to all transactions as far back as Jan. 1, 2011." ?

No new law is being passed.

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#12
post #3

U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. How does that square with the article's "The new I.R.S. guidance will be retroactive, applying to all transactions as far back as Jan. 1, 2011." ?

The IRS doesn't pass laws, it's just issuing a guideline on how it will interpret existing tax law.

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in this case the IRS isn't passing a retroactive law, they are clarifying the interpretation of an existing law.

The need to clarify the point implies that it was interpreted differently in the past. So this change in interpretation being applied retroactively is what the OP is concerned with.

Interpretation isn't law, so in any legal dispute over the IRS actions under the current interpretation, the law which would be controlling is not retroactive.

Not to mention that there is solid precedent that retroactive taxes are not, in general, ex post facto laws in the first place, such that even if this was Congress adopting a retroactive tax law, it still wouldn't fall afoul of the ex post facto prohibition.

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in this case the IRS isn't passing a retroactive law, they are clarifying the interpretation of an existing law.

The need to clarify the point implies that it was interpreted differently in the past. So this change in interpretation being applied retroactively is what the OP is concerned with.

but OP's concerns don't matter. The Constitution's concerns matter.

"Battery" is a crime. If the state decides that "smacking someone's back" meets the definition of battery, they can prosecute people who committed that act before the clarification, as long as a judge finds their interpretation to be consistent with the wording of the law.

Law is not computer code that fully specifies a simulation in advance.

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#16
post #14

Maybe all cap gains should just be taxed at the same rate. 1 year threshold his so artificial.

I think this is a fine idea.. Just tax them at whatever your marginal tax rate is less 5% and call it a day. The rich would howl at the suggestion, but it'd go a long way toward removing complexity.

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#17
post #3

U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. How does that square with the article's "The new I.R.S. guidance will be retroactive, applying to all transactions as far back as Jan. 1, 2011." ?

I'm guessing the idea here is that the IRS is changing how they interpret their own internal policy for how they will use the powers given to them by an existing law, rather than outright passing a new law with retroactive effects.

...but that justification seems like a horribly slippery slope. If you accept that logic, what stops congress from passing a law that creates the "Criminal Investigation Service" and gives their director the power to make things illegal? Would he then be allowed to make a "policy change" retroactively making something illegal and arresting them for it?

edit: I think Peugh v. United States actually answers this. Retroactive application of changes to US sentencing guidelines by a government commission were ruled to be a violation of ex post facto protections.

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#18
post #14

Maybe all cap gains should just be taxed at the same rate. 1 year threshold his so artificial.

I don't see how that is more artificial than taxing cap gains at a different rate than salary, or any number of other examples in the tax codes.

All of these things are done to change the incentives about something, you can't expect them to be consistent without reference to those goals (and even then...)

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#19
This made my jaw drop: "Its Medallion fund, which now manages money for its employees only, was the most prolific user of basket options. The fund has earned an average annual return of more than 35 percent for two decades."

$25 billion is all employees money; Even if we exclude Simon's money ($14 billion) it is a ton. 35% avg annualized returns for 20 years. Simply stunning.

Re: I.R.S. Cracks Down on Hedge Fund Tax Strategy

#20
post #10

In my opinion this is a much better article on the subject. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-07-21/renaissanc... Essentially the US has a few different taxes you can pay as an investor. There is a short term tax on trading profits and a longer term holder tax for "investors" which is lower. This obviously creates a situation where people will do their best to make their trading fall into the later category…

The rules are deeply arbitrary, and goes to the nature of financials as being rather abstract concepts with arbitrary definitions. I buy stock in a firm, that firm makes a lot of profit, but I don't liquidate my position. How is that different (short-term vs long-term gains) from me selling their stock and buying another stock? It's even the same word: A retail business sells its stock (product), and sells it's stock…

The difference is the people who make the tax rules want to encourage one kind of behavior over another, regardless of anything else. You're free to think that's a fundamentally bad idea, but it isn't "arbitrary," it's the basic idea of Behavioral Economics.
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