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United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

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Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#81
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I ever listened to horror stories like these, there wouldn't be an airline left I would fly with. This is textbook; replace United with Delta, Southwest, Air Canada, etc., at will. The only company I've used that I haven't heard exactly this type of complaint about is Widerøe, a tiny regional line in Norway with a fleet of prop planes. This is unfortunate, as I live in Pennsylvania and get motion sickness on those…

Overall JetBlue and Virgin have been great. AA and US Air have been good. United is the worst.

Pity they don't fly to more places.

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#82
post #13

Off-topic: Please use ISO 8601 format(YYYY-MM-DD) for dates in titles. The US date format hurts my poor logical soul. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

Its sad that this is the top comment. When I visit European sites I don't demand they change things just for me. Maybe be more of a gracious visitor?

Why is this being down voted? It is true. When British sites spell things with superfluous letters (colour, for instance,) should HN readers demand that they change it to the more efficient spelling? American English is spoken natively by more people in the world than British English, so therefore must we banish British English from these pages? Of course not. We could argue that the US has the largest number of visitors to HN than any other country. HN is an American site. YC is an American organization. Thus, those not comfortable with American conventions really ought to get over it.

The United States has the world's largest economy, according to the IMF, World Bank and UN. So obviously the US is doing something right. Perhaps the rest of the world ought to adopt American conventions. I say that in jest, but the point is that criticizing the American way of doing things is a popular sport, yet at the end of the day, the American system has resulted in an economic output greater than Germany, the UK, France and Italy combined. The EU has a per-capita GDP of $36,779 and the US is at $54,601. So apparently something is working with the American way of doing things. Just because "the rest of the world" does it doesn't make it better. This whole idea that the American way of doing things is somehow inferior is just as ridiculous as the British/French rivalry.

The fact that the parent comment is the top comment is ridiculous. It's a petty thing about which to complain and adds nothing to the discussion. In fact, the parent comment ought to be down voted for being absolutely irrelevant to the posting in question.

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right, unfortunately. If it's cheaper to buy insurance that will cover the (expected) losses caused by outages, most organizations will choose to do that instead of making the software more failure-resistant. The problem is that insurance only works well for isolated incidents, but a software failure can cause a cascading failure with a huge impact. Insurance companies generally aren't prepared for that…

But aren't the insurance companies smart enough to figure this out and start correcting their rates to be much higher?And if they actually have their acts together, wouldn't those same insurance companies start insisting on basic audits of their client's systems? I actually don't know about this stuff, so any correction of my thoughts is appreciated.

A cynic in me feels that someone will figure out the problems with cascade case and insure from failure of insurance companies to pay out insure money. Just like during 2008 financial crisis.

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#84

I worked on United's computer systems for a year (never that one though), and so I get nervous when I see a headline like that. True story: one of their systems still runs on a mainframe that has 9 bits in a byte!

I did not know that was ever a thing. I knew that bit counts had been lower - 5 or 6 - but assumed once we hit 8, the whole power-of-2 thing was too comfortable in a binary system to ever be anything besides a power of 2 again - and sure enough, we get 16 bit, 32 bit, and 64 bit systems, and double-byte and triple-byte char sets, etc. Need more space? Take another byte.

Was the 9th bit special? Or just a standard bit in the byte?

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#85

I worked on United's computer systems for a year (never that one though), and so I get nervous when I see a headline like that. True story: one of their systems still runs on a mainframe that has 9 bits in a byte!

Oh god stories like this scare me.

One of my friends used to intern for a very large company that maintained software for flight control towers. His entire summer was spent writing bash tests for these old Fortran apps that kept planes from running into each other. Most of the mainframes still had tape.

That's the code that keeps track of our planes.

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#86
post #9

I have a nagging (intuition? feeling?) that software safety/reliability/security needs are going to explode soon (because unreliabilities multiply in non-resilient systems interacting with each other) and that these are simply foreshocks. (yeah, I know security is already a huge deal, but as we come to trust software systems more and more, the safety/reliability factor will come more into play) EDIT: This is also par…

So obviously the "move fast and break things" philosophy is meant for some fun web applications. But what's the equivalent "modern best practice" for systems that are much more weighed towards stability and resilience as opposed to new features?

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#87

I worked on United's computer systems for a year (never that one though), and so I get nervous when I see a headline like that. True story: one of their systems still runs on a mainframe that has 9 bits in a byte!

I did not know that was ever a thing. I knew that bit counts had been lower - 5 or 6 - but assumed once we hit 8, the whole power-of-2 thing was too comfortable in a binary system to ever be anything besides a power of 2 again - and sure enough, we get 16 bit, 32 bit, and 64 bit systems, and double-byte and triple-byte char sets, etc. Need more space? Take another byte. Was the 9th bit special? Or just a standard bit…

Someone probably read too much Iain M. Banks and decided to adopt Marain's base-9 system :)

If I'm not mistaken, some old consoles used a 9-bit RGB encoding, so this could theoretically help there. Minecraft also uses a 9-bit system for Redstone, afaik.

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#88

I worked on United's computer systems for a year (never that one though), and so I get nervous when I see a headline like that. True story: one of their systems still runs on a mainframe that has 9 bits in a byte!

I did not know that was ever a thing. I knew that bit counts had been lower - 5 or 6 - but assumed once we hit 8, the whole power-of-2 thing was too comfortable in a binary system to ever be anything besides a power of 2 again - and sure enough, we get 16 bit, 32 bit, and 64 bit systems, and double-byte and triple-byte char sets, etc. Need more space? Take another byte. Was the 9th bit special? Or just a standard bit…

The PowerPC based AS/400 systems were technically 65-bit machines, as the extra bit was a privilege flag to separate system code from user code. Hardware enforced security - one reason why it is such a stable machine.

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#89
post #55

I bet this is an issue with an old mainframe used somewhere in the booking system, something that has worked well but is difficult to fix when things go wrong. I think there is / will be a lot of money to be made trying to solve the problem of software security and reliability. This is obviously an extremely difficult problem, however the number of ancient systems that we currently have interconnected I think more la…

Truth is that most reservation systems are built on TPF and it isn't really easy to replace.

just in case we have readers to whom TPF isn't a household name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_Processing_Facilit...

Re: United Airlines System-Wide Computer Problem

#90
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I ever listened to horror stories like these, there wouldn't be an airline left I would fly with. This is textbook; replace United with Delta, Southwest, Air Canada, etc., at will. The only company I've used that I haven't heard exactly this type of complaint about is Widerøe, a tiny regional line in Norway with a fleet of prop planes. This is unfortunate, as I live in Pennsylvania and get motion sickness on those…

Overall JetBlue and Virgin have been great. AA and US Air have been good. United is the worst.

AA destroyed a piece of baggage of mine. They denied responsibility. I sued and won. Then I couldn't collect because that judgement was essentially nullified because AA was going through bankruptcy.

I have 1k status with United -- I fly internationally with them almost monthly. The problems I've had with United have been when bags have to be interlined to Brussels Airlines and occasionally (surprisingly) Lufthansa. I've also had Lufthansa somehow think it was a good idea for 2 toddlers to sit in scattered seats rows away from their parents (who were also rows apart as well, despite having checked in almost 24 hours before the flight and being Star Alliance Gold.) I've had Brussels Airlines say they were going to "gate check" a stroller only to have it show up days later. I've been stranded in Detroit back in the Northwest Airlines days when aircrews hadn't showed up to work. I've been stuck in Paris when the Air France pilots decide that salaries up to $300,000 per year just aren't enough. On a recent United trip from Hartford to Marseille, I was stuck in Hartford for % extra hours for an airplane that was stuck in Newark (just a I'm not defending United. I'm not disparaging the others. The fact is that the air transport industry is extremely complex and perceptions of quality are as varied as their are passengers in the sky.

Every airline sucks and every airline is great. Pick a day, pick a destination and roll the dice. When you fly often enough it seems like it all averages out to just one level of melancholic service; unless you're flying on Singapore Airlines -- then it just becomes sublime.

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